Numbnuts Talk A Lot .... (which is what makes them look like numbnuts to begin with)

[Jessica Leigh]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

Interesting post.one quick question for you though Jessica ..if you can answer it .Why are we ,the U.S. in Iraq and why should one single U.S. soldier give thier life for the reason I'm anxiously awaiting to hear?

i have no idea.... i never said i was FOR the war- i said a grown- up 24 yr old voluntarily went to fight for his country because it was what he wanted to do and it upsets me that his mother is throwing a tantrum about the whole thing. i understand grieving when a family member dies- we all have done it many times- and i am sorry that she lost her son. do you think Cindy Sheehan would be doing all of this if her son hadn't died? would she be camping outside of the president's ranch protesting the war if Casey was alive? probably not.

like i said before- i am completely in support of peaceful protests and believe everyone has the right to free speech... Casey CHOSE to go and died honorably for his country... i don't think his mother is doing what Casey would have wanted for his legacy.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by Jessica Leigh

i have no idea.... i never said i was FOR the war- i said a grown- up 24 yr old voluntarily went to fight for his country because it was what he wanted to do and it upsets me that his mother is throwing a tantrum about the whole thing. i understand grieving when a family member dies- we all have done it many times- and i am sorry that she lost her son. do you think Cindy Sheehan would be doing all of this if her son hadn't died? would she be camping outside of the president's ranch protesting the war if Casey was alive? probably not.

like i said before- i am completely in support of peaceful protests and believe everyone has the right to free speech... Casey CHOSE to go and died honorably for his country... i don't think his mother is doing what Casey would have wanted for his legacy.

Very good points (I tend to stay away from political discussions on here...and most everyone knows why...haha). I just thought I would say that I agree with you and you bring up very valid points.

[Jessica Leigh]

Originally Posted by dissention

Lila Lipscomb's son volunteered and he was killed, should she be deprived of expressing her disgust or derided for expressing anger over her son dying because of lies that the US government told? Did her child and the child of Cindy Sheehan die for what they were told they were fighting for or did they die for other reasons? Volunteering to go doesn't mean **** if you're lied to about the reasons for going. I think the US government robbed both their sons of their honor when it signed their death warrants based on lies and misinformation.

come on- we all know at least a bit of US history and know that the government does what they want and tells people what they want them to think. those soldiers knew that they might be forced to do something they didn't want to do or didn't know the reason for or whatever... they also knew that they might be killed wherever the government sent them for whatever reason. for every person who enlists there is an excellent chance that there will be a new president before he/she finishes the time they signed on for in the military. there is also a decent chance that the new president will be from a different political party than when the person enlisted. so... there is a good chance that during the person's duty in the military, situations with the US and other countries could change and a war might occur. people who join the military KNOW that they could very well go to war for something they believe in, or something a stupid new president has decided is a good enough reason to go to war. this is why i never joined (and the money they offered for college was VERY tempting)

i am very sad for the families of those who have died in this war and yes i do believe that they have the right to mourn and be angry.

[Jessica Leigh]

Originally Posted by Lux

So instead of being angry at the manipulation that took her child's life, she should honour her child's suicide? If the fact that he was manipulated is not relevant and he just wanted to die for his country for any reason, existent or not, then isn't that basically what it is, suicide? Of course I don't think it is, he like everyone else was sent based on lies.

honor her child's suicide? i don't quite see it that way. she should respect and honor the fact that her son died doing something he really believed in and wanted to do... even if the rest of us think it was for all of the wrong reasons.

Originally Posted by Lux

I also don't agree that they know they could be sent to war based on any reason. That's a load of crap, and if it's true then a change ought to be taught because when one enters the military one should be able to know that their lives will never be put in a situation where they could be compromised unless it is for a very good reason. You can't toy with people's lives and tell them they were in the military, they should have expected that. They should not have to expect that and they should be very angry if they're dealt that.

sorry but the US is different from Australia. somehow, we seem to get our noses into everyone's business and we end up sending troops somewhere. for whatever reason. according to Australia's department of defense homepage there are currently only around 1500 Australian Defence Force personnel deployed outside of Australia. and when was the last time you guys had any sort of conflict with another country where blood was shed? (not counting the crap the US drags you into) it seems that you are accustomed to a country where they DON'T put anyone's lives into a situation where they could be compromised unless it is for a very good reason. unfortunately, when i hear about someone i know enlisting i wonder if i'll ever see them again. i almost expect some sort of bad news. i guess, as an american, i'm getting pretty accustomed to being messed with and i assume that anyone who joins our military would know that they might die.

[Jessica Leigh]

Originally Posted by Lux

On a side note, if you go back in history your statement is completely innaccurate.

which statement?

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I would consider your viewpoint and I think that we need different viewpoints on this board, but then you ruin it for me when you say things like that.

Because it is akin to name calling, which is the lowest point to go in a discussion. Liberal means open-minded and generous but it has been hijacked by right-wing media personalities and made into a dirty word. It is not.

Casey did not sign up to die. He signed up to do something productive with his life, this is why most young men sign up. They rarely think they will be the ones who to go war.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

Casey did not sign up to die. He signed up to do something productive with his life, this is why most young men sign up. They rarely think they will be the ones who to go war.

And that is very true, however I think the point that she was trying to make was that even though they may "hope" that they don't have to go to war, they know that their is that possibility...and that going to war is something that could happen while they are in the military.

[DavidMn]

Originally Posted by Sapphire Girl

True, but she has referred to the insurgents as freedom fighters. She even said to Chris Matthews in a Hardball interview that the U.S. shouldn't have gone into Afghanistan.

Oh really, I hadnt heard that. Is thats true, thats totally wrong of her to say that.

[Sugar]

The woman has a right to protest the war. So she is. Frankly I don't see why that isn't the end of the conversation. What her son did or didn't do is irrelevent. If people to choose to see it as her disgracing her son's memory it's because people choose to see it that way.

I don't see it that way. I see a mother grieving. I choose to cut her some slack.

[DavidMn]

Originally Posted by Sugar

The woman has a right to protest the war. So she is. Frankly I don't see why that isn't the end of the conversation. What her son did or didn't do is irrelevent. If people to choose to see it as her disgracing her son's memory it's because people choose to see it that way.

I don't see it that way. I see a mother grieving. I choose to cut her some slack.

That's a good point. I hope I dont sound too wishy-washy

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Ok, what is up with all the empty seats? lol

Was no one there?

[Jessica Leigh]

Originally Posted by Lux

That bit. You didn't specify how recent.

the point of that section of my post is that it seems that the US has dragged itself into a lot of bull**** conflicts that just seem really wrong. I know you must agree (in addition to many other ledgies from outside of the US who never cease to remind us here that our government is full of lies and insinuate that we should feel like **** if we feel any sort of patriotism) and pardon me for assuming that you all (outside the US) have more faith in your own governments to take care of you. i said "except the stuff the US drags you into" not to discount Australia's military's efforts, but to make a point that it was OUR fault that our sneaky government put both of our respective militaries' soldiers into danger. I don't think Australia has ever started **** with a country for stupid reasons and then dragged the US into it only to have thousands of soldiers die as a result of Australia's lies.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by Lux

That photo really could have been taken at any time. I'm not sure what it's proving. That there is no protest? All it really proves is that at some point in time there were quite a few seats and that's about it.
...

Agreed, and most Americans support Sheehan's right to protest. I don't believe anyone is lying about the amount of people down there. Also, Cindy did not ASK anyone to go. I feel sorry for people who have to pick on a grieving mom to make themselves feel right and superior.