economy still improving

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I think you WERE lucky! but again, I wasnt talking about the MECHANICS of sex, I was referring to the CONSEQUENCES of sex.......and young women really have no clue what awaits them for the next 18 years in terms of the sacrifices, the expenses, the childcare headaches, the hassles over custody/visitation/child support etc........its a huge life change and when you're 18 or 20 something, you've really got no clue.......

I realize that - but again - I don't know of any women who don't know that sex=pregnancy!

or disease

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I am not talking about a complaint, therefore this is a moot point.

Which means that you are talking about reasons, which means that women do not have to be responsible. "It's not my fault, I didn't know I could get pregnant if I had sex with my boyfriend" No wonder my tax bill is jacked through the roof.

I never said women should be given a pass on anything! What I said was, if a woman says "no" and a man decides its a "yes" why is it only a woman has to deal with the consequences?

Perhaps women should take more time in evaluating the men they choose to have sex with before they get to the point where the man is going to reveal himself as someone who would force sex on her. If he's a total asshole and it happens all of sudden, then I would expect the woman to dump the dude instantaneously. Sadly, I know so many women who stay with jerks. I don't know why they do it, but they do.

Fine and dandy. Men should accept NO as an answer then. Thats not rocket science either.

Of course, men should accept "no" as answer. Who ever said they shouldn't?

DUH, I FOUND OUT they were jerks only after they LEFT! Do you think men wear little signs that say "Im gonna leave you high and dry if you become pregnant even though I asked you to stop taking the pill?" GET REAL. Men are con artists.

If men are con artists, then women must be awfully gullable.

Again, as I said, most women arent wired that way. We have something called a "maternal instinct" which men sadly do not.

Meh. Everyone's got an opinion. I don't think the "maternal instinct" you're talking about is all it's cracked up to be.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, call Mother Nature and file a complaint

Seriously, that is the way we and most other animals were made. The male is the traditional sexual aggressor.

so true so true as long as the line isnt crossed into "no" territory, its all good

[irishgrl]

Which means that you are talking about reasons, which means that women do not have to be responsible. "It's not my fault, I didn't know I could get pregnant if I had sex with my boyfriend" No wonder my tax bill is jacked through the roof.

No, you are confusing "reason" with excuse. I wasnt talking about excuses or complaints, I was taking about the reason. Young women ARE ignorant by virtue of their not having amassed any real life experience, therefore to expect them to make mature decisions is unreasonable and unrealistic.

Perhaps women should take more time in evaluating the men they choose to have sex with before they get to the point where the man is going to reveal himself as someone who would force sex on her. If he's a total asshole and it happens all of sudden, then I would expect the woman to dump the dude instantaneously. Sadly, I know so many women who stay with jerks. I don't know why they do it, but they do.

Perhaps they should but I myself have been more of an "heart" person than a "head" person and as a result, suffered much in relationships out of a basic needyness...I can tell you that many women (myself in particular) stayed in bad relationships because I had so little self esteem that I only felt worthy if a man thought I was worthy.....sad but true. In any event, I didnt know the extent of the "jerk-factor" until I became pregnant--both times. I didnt assume husband #2 would leave me when I became pregnant (just because husband #1 did)........I gave him the benefit of the doubt and was rewarded by the same treatment for my trust.

Of course, men should accept "no" as answer. Who ever said they shouldn't?

The RAPISTS. The MOLESTERS. THE INCESTUAL FAMILY MEMBERS.

If men are con artists, then women must be awfully gullable.

THIS woman was.......

Meh. Everyone's got an opinion. I don't think the "maternal instinct" you're talking about is all it's cracked up to be.

Ah...you're suffering from "Venus envy!"

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

No, you are confusing "reason" with excuse. I wasnt talking about excuses or complaints, I was taking about the reason. Young women ARE ignorant by virtue of their not having amassed any real life experience, therefore to expect them to make mature decisions is unreasonable and unrealistic.

I might have thought this before the age of tee-vee, but not today.

Ah...you're suffering from "Venus envy!"

Not even close. I have never, and would never, want to be a woman.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

so true so true as long as the line isnt crossed into "no" territory, its all good

and then you know sometimes "no" means "yes"

cut to steam coming out of Mary's ears

[irishgrl]

I might have thought this before the age of tee-vee, but not today.

there's a HUGE difference between watching a program on tv and actually going thru something first hand. TV is abstract. it cant possibly prepare a person for life because ultimately it isnt real--what is going on onscreen isnt the viewer's reality. You can tell me all about your life experiences but I wont know what the hell you are talking about until I have actually lived thru it myself. (to the degree that I can. obviously there are some things that I can never experience, and vice versa)

Not even close. I have never, and would never, want to be a woman.

I was JOKING but it is a fact that unless you've felt a baby grow inside you, you will have absolutely NO idea what maternal instinct IS. For you to dismiss it out of hand as "not everything its cracked up to be" only shows the depth of your ignorance about it. I have no idea what it is like to be a male but I dont discount their experiences as invalid.......for SHAME!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by The Tower

. . . Not even close. I have never, and would never, want to be a woman.

Well, you already sit to to pee - so . . . . .

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, you already sit to to pee - so . . . . .

Jason you are SO bad

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Jason you are SO bad

LOL - and I, of course, have PMS worse than any chick I know

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

LOL - and I, of course, have PMS worse than any chick I know

Im sure you exaggerate my dear
besides, anyone who likes ice cream the way YOU do is A-OK with me!

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

I realize that - but again - I don't know of any women who don't know that sex=pregnancy!

or disease

to clarify: by consequences, I dont mean disease OR that sex=pregnancy. by consequences I mean the 18 years of responsibility, the issues of childcare, the possibility of family court battles, the sacrifices a woman may have to make in terms of putting her career on hold, and various other issues that arise as a direct result of actually being responsible for the child once it arrives. THAT is what I meant by consequences.

sometimes I forget that the written word is problematic.......

[sparky]

I have seen VAST stupidly quite recently that relates to this subject.

Warning - GRAPHIC

A female friend of mine had a booty call 2 weeks ago with a guy she had dated once. She raved about how they did it 6 times.

So, I am telling her about a bad sexual experience I had a few months ago. Concerning a guy who wanted me to "swallow". So sad, too bad. Never happening. The last guy who did that - unexpectedly "got there" without letting me know, got knocked to the floor by my fist. Bastard. I told him I wasn't into that. Anyway...

She then tells me that she didn't mind when this guy did that to her. She was just hoping she wasn't pregnant. I hollered at her " How the hell would THAT happen? You didn't use any birth control ?"

The answer "I had vaginal dryness."
I told her that was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard in my life, and that her actions were idiotic, dangerous, and irresponsible.

The response, "People make mistakes. **** happens."

She was pissed at me because I called her on her ****. I told her that as my friend, I would expect her to hit me in the head with big chunk of lumber if I told her I was letting random guys dump semen in me. She is still mad at me.

So, here we have a 40 year old, college educated woman with a great job, and all that stuff. Making a stupid choice when she knows better. She already had one kid with a jerk at 18. Evidently didn't learn. Ready to risk her life, pregnancy, and all the rest for an orgasm with a guy she has met once.

Happens all the time. I have to posit that she bears the brunt with this one. It is no secret what the risks are. She has the friggin uterus. She is the guardian, so to speak. It's her ass if she slips up, and she is well aware what the price can be. She can read.

I saw all kinds of stupid, thoughtless breeding as kid, and the consequences. Poverty, violence, alcoholism - doesn't take a PhD to figure it out. Not even for a 5 year old. Before I was even sexually active, I knew about AIDS, and that unsafe sex could very likely kill me. So I haven't had it. Pretty simple.
Semen in my body = very likely a slow lingering death. So guess what ? No semen in my body. Pretty damned basic. Don't know why people don't get that. Semen in body = pregnancy. What's the problem here ? Are people that stupid ?

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by sparky

I have seen VAST stupidly quite recently that relates to this subject.

Warning - GRAPHIC

A female friend of mine had a booty call 2 weeks ago with a guy she had dated once. She raved about how they did it 6 times.

So, I am telling her about a bad sexual experience I had a few months ago. Concerning a guy who wanted me to "swallow". So sad, too bad. Never happening. The last guy who did that - unexpectedly "got there" without letting me know, got knocked to the floor by my fist. Bastard. I told him I wasn't into that. Anyway...

She then tells me that she didn't mind when this guy did that to her. She was just hoping she wasn't pregnant. I hollered at her " How the hell would THAT happen? You didn't use any birth control ?"

The answer "I had vaginal dryness."
I told her that was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard in my life, and that her actions were idiotic, dangerous, and irresponsible.

The response, "People make mistakes. **** happens."

She was pissed at me because I called her on her ****. I told her that as my friend, I would expect her to hit me in the head with big chunk of lumber if I told her I was letting random guys dump semen in me. She is still mad at me.

So, here we have a 40 year old, college educated woman with a great job, and all that stuff. Making a stupid choice when she knows better. She already had one kid with a jerk at 18. Evidently didn't learn. Ready to risk her life, pregnancy, and all the rest for an orgasm with a guy she has met once.

Happens all the time. I have to posit that she bears the brunt with this one. It is no secret what the risks are. She has the friggin uterus. She is the guardian, so to speak. It's her ass if she slips up, and she is well aware what the price can be. She can read.

I saw all kinds of stupid, thoughtless breeding as kid, and the consequences. Poverty, violence, alcoholism - doesn't take a PhD to figure it out. Not even for a 5 year old. Before I was even sexually active, I knew about AIDS, and that unsafe sex could very likely kill me. So I haven't had it. Pretty simple.
Semen in my body = very likely a slow lingering death. So guess what ? No semen in my body. Pretty damned basic. Don't know why people don't get that. Semen in body = pregnancy. What's the problem here ? Are people that stupid ?

I agree w/you, your friend was irresponsible. I find it amazing that that sort of casual attitude exists at ALL amongst supposedly mature, intelligent people.

one thing tho...regarding this:

Semen in my body = very likely a slow lingering death

I had always been told that AIDS (assuming you are referring to AIDS when you say slow lingering death) didnt survive stomach acids....is this wrong?

I think part of the problem could be incomplete information or downright MIS-information....what do you think???

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

there's a HUGE difference between watching a program on tv and actually going thru something first hand. TV is abstract. it cant possibly prepare a person for life because ultimately it isnt real--what is going on onscreen isnt the viewer's reality. You can tell me all about your life experiences but I wont know what the hell you are talking about until I have actually lived thru it myself. (to the degree that I can. obviously there are some things that I can never experience, and vice versa)

I was referring to the fact that with the widespread communication of today's era, very few women can claim ignorance or the consequences of pregnancy.

I was JOKING

I got that.

but it is a fact that unless you've felt a baby grow inside you, you will have absolutely NO idea what maternal instinct IS.

I didn't claim to know what it was.

For you to dismiss it out of hand as "not everything its cracked up to be" only shows the depth of your ignorance about it.

My statement wasn't ignorant. I've seem mothers do horrible things to their children and create situations for their children that are also horrible. With that in mind, "maternal instinct" is not everything it's cracked up to be.

I have no idea what it is like to be a male but I dont discount their experiences as invalid.......for SHAME!

I didn't either. I guess we're reading different posts .

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, you already sit to to pee - so . . . . .

No I don't, Missy! I'm just gonna leave it at that....

Originally Posted by sparky

Are people that stupid ?

Yes.