Securing our borders

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by bretonbanquet

The thing is there's aid, which is obviously great, and the US gives more than any other country - but there's also stuff going on with dictators and dictatorial regimes, like Zimbabwe and Burma. Why should Iraq be any different when there are people in these countries being treated worse than animals?

Because there's no oil.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Because there's no oil.

How do I love thee? Let me count the ways.

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

Giving to charity is a double edged sword because if you give, people say you are only giving to get a pat on the back for it and if you give quietly, then they won't know about it and they say we don't give. Can't win.

Americans are very generous with time and money. I'm talking about human beings, not corporations/the government, etc., although, they can be generous at times.

If one is truly charitable, he/she won't care if others know about it.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Because there's no oil.

I am sorry - do we have Iraq's oil - did I miss that memo.?

Seriosuly, we give tons of aid to countries in Africa and South and Central America who nothing to offer us. Thus, while I certainly agree that oil plays a big part of it, it is not the only reason we give aid.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Which is my point. If we had gone into Rwanda (which I think the UN should have) - and set up a new govt. Wouldn't that be the same thing? I mean suppose we went in and the people elected the same govt. We would have to stop that from happening. Thus, the complexity of this conversaion.

We were successful in Bosnia and Somalia to a certain extent.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer

If one is truly charitable, he/she won't care if others know about it.

So true. But, trust me, the charities do not mind if one uses their donation as an advertisement

[wondergirl9847]

I don't subscribe to love it or leave it...I am saying that if you don't think America has great freedoms, then go live somewhere where you think does. Come back when Bush is gone if you think that's our problem.

How many celebrities threatened to move to Canada when Bush was elected? Did any leave?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

We were successful in Bosnia and Somalia to a certain extent.

Yes, we were. I would even go as far as saying Korea and, to a lesser extent, Nam were successful in the South. Then, there are the Central and South American incidences. The whole thing is just so sensitive. I mean how far do we go to ensure it does not happen again. I do not know the answer to this question. I do think, however, that once the far right and their pro life crap gets in, e.g. the denial of any aid for any country allowing abortion of any kind, that is when things get messed up. I think this is yet another example of why religion and politics should be sep.

[bretonbanquet]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

At least your Prime Minister is most probably going to be ousted for this. We are stuck.

You're joking... he'll win OK, don't worry about that. He's lying and cheating his way through the issues and dodging the ones he's stuck on - and everyone here seems happy to accept being lied to. The problem people have is that our three main parties are basically identical, changing their policies to chase the votes. Democracy has evolved into a horrible PR game here and Blair is the strongest player

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I am sorry - do we have Iraq's oil - did I miss that memo.?

Close to it.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0628-02.htm
Billions of Revenue from Oil 'Missing'

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I am sorry - do we have Iraq's oil - did I miss that memo.?

I don't know. Have you ever heard of Kellogg Brown and Root or Halliburton?

[amber]

Originally Posted by dissention

Close to it.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0628-02.htm
Billions of Revenue from Oil 'Missing'

But, hey, haven't we all misplaced 3.7bn. dollars at some point?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

I don't subscribe to love it or leave it...I am saying that if you don't think America has great freedoms, then go live somewhere where you think does. Come back when Bush is gone if you think that's our problem.

No one ever said that this country didn't have great freedoms in this thread.

Again, why should people move because they don't like the president? Isn't this country all about participation from the people and you have the luxury of trying to change things? Saying people should leave just doesn't make any sense to me.

[bretonbanquet]

We don't even know what happened to the money from our own oil in the UK, let alone the oil we're busy appropriating from elsewhere

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I don't know. Have you ever heard of Kellogg Brown and Root or Halliburton?

Again, if the US had wanted to give them money, clearly there was an easier way to do that. But, I agree, they all profited hugely off of Iraq as they will off of the soon to be drilled Alaskan reserve lands.