Securing our borders

[amber]

Originally Posted by bretonbanquet

The thing is there's aid, which is obviously great, and the US gives more than any other country - but there's also stuff going on with dictators and dictatorial regimes, like Zimbabwe and Burma. Why should Iraq be any different when there are people in these countries being treated worse than animals?

Yep, exactly. And we've also set up terrible puppet gov'ts.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Yep! But, if they had the funds, what should they do more than they are doing now?

Well, they could actually use those funds to put more border patrollers on the border. What a concept!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by bretonbanquet

The thing is there's aid, which is obviously great, and the US gives more than any other country - but there's also stuff going on with dictators and dictatorial regimes, like Zimbabwe and Burma. Why should Iraq be any different when there are people in these countries being treated worse than animals?

I know. It is all a little overwhelming to me. I mean clearly the US alone cannot stop every single one of these things from happening. The UN perhaps could, but it is corrupt and it has too many cooks in the kitchen. Then, notwithstanding Iraq, if the US acts alone, it is seen by some as an aggressor with bad intent. I wish I knew the answer

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I disagree (respectfully ) - the US give tons of aid to African nations that have nothing to offer us

But, if we accept your statement as true and assume all are in the same need, clearly we have only a finite amount to give. Is it wrong to give that to people who can help us (if that is indeed what is going on). I do not know the answer to this question.

Well, the aid is mostly in the form of food, which we have an overabundance of anyway. (Though there are hungry here, obviously.)

[dissention]

Originally Posted by amber

Yep, exactly. And we've also set up terrible puppet gov'ts.

Isn't that what we've been doing for the past two years in Iraq?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

What about when almost a million were killed in Rwanda? We did essentially nothing. And please note, I'm not laying all of the blame on America, it also falls on the UN, France, Italy, etc.

I agree. But, once again, you are spinning my statement to concentrate solely on that incident. Clearly the US feeds and shelters millions in Africa That is what I was talking about. So, yes, we do bad things, but I think we do many more good things.

[amber]

Originally Posted by dissention

Isn't that what we've been doing for the past two years in Iraq?

As far as I'm concerned, yes.
It really is our specialty, has been for a long time now.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by amber

Yep, exactly. And we've also set up terrible puppet gov'ts.

Which is my point. If we had gone into Rwanda (which I think the UN should have) - and set up a new govt. Wouldn't that be the same thing? I mean suppose we went in and the people elected the same govt. We would have to stop that from happening. Thus, the complexity of this conversaion.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Well, they could actually use those funds to put more border patrollers on the border. What a concept!

I know. I bought a plane ticket yesterday and when the nice lady at Delta told me I had to pay the $10 9/11 fee, I just went off to Mars. I was like "WE HAVE BEEN PAYING THAT CORPORATE WELFARE FOR FIVE YEARS AND ACCORDING TO THE GOVT. WE ARE NOT ANY SAFER!" Bless her heart

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by amber

As far as I'm concerned, yes.
It really is our specialty, has been for a long time now.

Well, we could go back to the Korean war for the the recent times and, perhaps even Hearst's Spanish American War

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

[
If you don't like it here, go live somewhere else.

That's a horrible thing to say to someone who sees flaws in our system and has serious concerns about fixing them. In any relationship, "love it or leave it" would seem unhealthy. That would apply to a relationship with country as well.
Back to the original topic, does this petition support having vigilantes such as "The Minutemen" on our border? Did you know that Congress just passed a bill appropriating more funds for this? All Bush has to do is sign it. But I bet he won't.
You could send the petition to him but be advised, the man doesn't like to read.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

That's a horrible thing to say to someone who sees flaws in our system and has serious concerns about fixing them. In any relationship, "love it or leave it" would seem unhealthy. That would apply to a relationship with country as well.
Back to the original topic, does this petition support having vigilantes such as "The Minutemen" on our border? Did you know that Congress just passed a bill appropriating more funds for this? All Bush has to do is sign it. But I bet he won't.
You could send the petition to him but be advised, the man doesn't like to read.

Those people are SCARY SCARY SCARY - talk about Bubba with a shotgun Did you see the pics

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by bretonbanquet

Totally agree, not that I want to get heavily involved in this I wouldn't bash the US for this kind of thing - the UK are every bit as guilty (both countries have strangely similar ideas lately )

At least your Prime Minister is most probably going to be ousted for this. We are stuck.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

At least your Prime Minister is most probably going to be ousted for this. We are stuck.

Risking the wrath -- I think this conv. is larger than the Bush Admin., though the Bush Admin. certainly is bad. I mean America has been doing these things for years

[wondergirl9847]

Giving to charity is a double edged sword because if you give, people say you are only giving to get a pat on the back for it and if you give quietly, then they won't know about it and they say we don't give. Can't win.

Americans are very generous with time and money. I'm talking about human beings, not corporations/the government, etc., although, they can be generous at times.