For Those Without Kids...

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

ANyway - I HATE HATE HATE when parents let their kids scream their heads off at restaurants and do nothing...SO annoying...

You should see what people let their kids get away with in a library! Some people walk through those doors and seem to develop amnesia, forgetting that the little people who walked in with them are their children and their responsibility.

We once had a woman who sat at one of our public computers, IMing her friends, and watching videos, while her baby laid in a car-seat on the floor next to her and SCREAMED at the top of its lungs for a good 10 minutes.

My co-worker walked over and asked her to quiet the baby or please leave, and the woman laid into her, shouting obscenities and calling her a "heartless old bitch."
Mind you, the co-worker in question is a woman in her early 80s.
I intervened quickly and the patron left amid an additional flood of obscenities and rude comments, and threats of "reporting us."
To whom she thought she could report us, I have no idea.

But, hey, at least that kid had a mother.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

But I don't let it guide my life like I'm a crazed thirty something trying to trap a husband!

Otherwise known as Ally McBeal Syndrome. "I can't stop this feeling deep inside of me..."

Let us know when the dancing baby appears to you at night.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by dissention

Then nothing I say will make you get how I feel. The key word is "want".

So, any time someone wants anything, regardless of the reasoning behind it, it's selfishness?

Deanna "wants" to adopt.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

But, hey, at least that kid had a mother.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

So, any time someone wants anything, regardless of the reasoning behind it, it's selfishness?

Deanna "wants" to adopt.

There's always an underlying current of selfishness, whether it's strong or faint, whenever someone wants something. You seem to be using selfish as a negative term when it isn't necessarily so.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by dissention

There's always an underlying current of selfishness, whether it's strong or faint, whenever someone wants something. You seem to be using selfish as a negative term when it isn't necessarily so.

Okay, well, I think you're changing your story. Initially, you said it could only be described as selfish, though it is a natural selfishness. Now you're saying it can be faint, or underlying selfishness. That is more believable to me. Much more believeable, actually. And I understand that selfishness is not always a bad thing, but when it comes to the decision to have or not have children, I think selfishness is a really bad motivation.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

...

But, hey, at least that kid had a mother.

Oh and what a mother she was!

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by dissention

Otherwise known as Ally McBeal Syndrome. "I can't stop this feeling deep inside of me..."

Let us know when the dancing baby appears to you at night.

She was rediculous looking for her "one true love". Jesus get a grip lady. I intend to have hundreds of true loves. Of course I'm exagerating... at least a little bit.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Okay, well, I think you're changing your story. Initially, you said it could only be described as selfish, though it is a natural selfishness. Now you're saying it can be faint, or underlying selfishness. That is more believable to me. Much more believeable, actually. And I understand that selfishness is not always a bad thing, but when it comes to the decision to have or not have children, I think selfishness is a really bad motivation.

I'm not changing anything. Selfishness is selfishness and I initially stated:

I believe that everyone has children for selfish reasons, the only thing that fluctuates from person to person and couple to couple is the degree of selfishness.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

She was rediculous looking for her "one true love". Jesus get a grip lady. I intend to have hundreds of true loves. Of course I'm exagerating... at least a little bit.

I loved it the first two seasons, but man, it got awful later on down the road.

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

We once had a woman who sat at one of our public computers, IMing her friends, and watching videos, while her baby laid in a car-seat on the floor next to her and SCREAMED at the top of its lungs for a good 10 minutes.

My co-worker walked over and asked her to quiet the baby or please leave, and the woman laid into her, shouting obscenities and calling her a "heartless old bitch."
Mind you, the co-worker in question is a woman in her early 80s.
I intervened quickly and the patron left amid an additional flood of obscenities and rude comments, and threats of "reporting us."
To whom she thought she could report us, I have no idea.

Classy. Verrrrry classy....

Now you know why I never go out anymore. The world is totally being ruined by inconsiderate, classless people. I have no tolerance for it anymore, so I just stay home.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by dissention

I believe that everyone has children for selfish reasons, the only thing that fluctuates from person to person and couple to couple is the degree of selfishness. The desire to have kids is wired into us from birth; we're humans. We have kids to scratch those paternal and maternal itches. I don't understand how anyone could say that having kids isn't selfish. Either we have them because our biological clocks are ticking, or we have them because we believe we have something to offer the child. Or we adopt less fortunate kids because it gives them a better life and it provides us with self-satisfaction. Either way, they're both different variations of selfishness, in my opinion. I'm not looking down on it, don't get me wrong, I think it's natural.

But, in all seriousness, what would you call the desire to have children?

Okay, pondering all that you've said more, I understand what you're saying, but think that if you presented it to the average person and said "Yes, I do think there is always some amount of selfishness going into wanting to have children" people aren't going to get that you don't mean that in a bad way. It's hard to get around the fact that that word has a really negative connotation. But, honestly, I'm thinking about it and I can't see any selfishness in my Mom wanting to have me. It's not like she really thought so much of herself that she thought she had a world to offer me because was going to be this fantastic parent. She's never been that full of herself. I understand what you're saying in theory, but cannot find a way to apply it to my Mom. I'm guessing others would have that problem, too. Even when I try to look at "selfish" in a good way, I just don't see it.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Now you know why I never go out anymore. The world is totally being ruined by inconsiderate, classless people. I have no tolerance for it anymore, so I just stay home.

If that's practical, then I suppose it works, but I certainly can't afford to do that.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Okay, pondering all that you've said more, I understand what you're saying, but think that if you presented it to the average person and said "Yes, I do think there is always some amount of selfishness going into wanting to have children" people aren't going to get that you don't mean that in a bad way. It's hard to get around the fact that that word has a really negative connotation.

I can only present it, it's up to them to think about and ponder what I'm saying. If no one gets it, at least I do.

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

But, honestly, I'm thinking about it and I can't see any selfishness in my Mom wanting to have me. It's not like she really thought so much of herself that she thought she had a world to offer me because was going to be this fantastic parent. She's never been that full of herself. I understand what you're saying in theory, but cannot find a way to apply it to my Mom. I'm guessing others would have that problem, too. Even when I try to look at "selfish" in a good way, I just don't see it.

Why did she want kids, if you don't mind my asking? Did she want the self-satisfaction that raising a child provides? Did she want to put her maternal instincts to work?

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Classy. Verrrrry classy....

Now you know why I never go out anymore. The world is totally being ruined by inconsiderate, classless people. I have no tolerance for it anymore, so I just stay home.

Here here I HATE going out in public...I thougt it was just me lol..and that I was becoming unhealthily anti-social...but now I'm beginning to see it's others ...not me