Doesn't anyone like Empire State???

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

You love Empire State and FAMILY MAN and dislike SMAP? Well, like I said before, to each his/her own.

The former songs are fun ear-candy, while the latter song... for me, at least... is plodding and "sludge-like" in its execution.

[ricohv]

ok Secondhandchain! I love Mystified too. And Johnny Stew, I love Lindseys songs where he is more kooky than when he has an angry chip on his shoulder. Family Man is a ding dong song, but it is so catchy. Same with Empire State. Let him make his statements on his solo albums, no one is gonna hear it anyways. With Fleetwood Mac he should stick with the catchy poppier melodies. JMHO!!

[Hawkeye]

Mirage as a whole is very bland and probably my least favorite Fleetwood Mac album from 1969-the present. And Empire State is very mediocre like most of Mirage. Oh Diane on the other hand sucks. another song I think sucks which won't be popular is Hold Me. Although I LOVE it to death live. The exact opposite opinion of most.

[Moony]

Originally Posted by ricohv

I think if Tusk was FM's answer to punk, then Mirage (or at least Empire State) is sort of Lindsey's answer to New Wave. FM is so much more than "Fleetwood Mac" and "Rumours". Those albums are great in the eyes of the world, but there are so many merits to Mirage and Tango. How many bands can last this long, adapt to the changing times musically (sound wise) but still maintain their core sound, and especially make the leap from 70's arena rock to 80's/pop/video age? The Eagles certainly did not. It's hard to imagine that Gypsy and Love In Store (and Rhiannon too) were not top 10 songs....hard to beleive since Gypsy and Rhiannon are pretty much considered "classics".

Nice observations ricohv I agree - especially about those three songs not being top 10 hits. But that's popular radio for you.

As for Empire State, I don't know, something really bugs me about it. I think it's easily Lindsey's worst FM song. Oh Diane is fantastic though. LOVE it.

[Moony]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

The former songs are fun ear-candy, while the latter song... for me, at least... is plodding and "sludge-like" in its execution.

Couldn't have said it better Stew. Except of course, I think ES is just a slight bit worse than SMAP.

both are pretty horrendous

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Now, Oh Diane, there's an underappreciated song. Pleasant melody, a fun unoffensive little ditty in the tradition of old-style pop - yet some people loathe it. ...

...and its "ha ha ha ha" background vocals are majorly annoying, and Eyes of the world - ugh, the monotonous repetition of "Eyes" ruins the song (live, it takes on a new spirit, though).

I totally agree about "Oh Diane"!!! And those are the exact reasons I can't take "Eyes" and "Book of Love." I thought I was the only one.

I was just talking to a new friend of mine (big FM fan) about this CD. It's one of the few she doesn't have, and she's heard such awful things about it that she's loath to buy it. She's a really big Lindsey fan over all the others, and she heard that his material on it sucks. I told her I love "Oh Diane" and that she might also like some of the others. I don't know about "Empire State." That one is the hardest for me to take. All things considered, Lindsey's Mirage songs don't seem to be his best by any means.

But as for the first comment about "That's Alright," maybe it is kind of weird for the album, being so country and all, but I think it's so brilliant that I don't care! I know I've said this many times before, but it's one of my all-time favorite Fleetwood Mac songs.

Hillary

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

another song I think sucks which won't be popular is Hold Me. Although I LOVE it to death live. The exact opposite opinion of most.

I just listened to it live while burning a CD and perhaps it COULD have been good - if they'd been able to nail the harmonies. But sadly that wasn't the case most of the time!

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

It's one of the few she doesn't have, and she's heard such awful things about it that she's loath to buy it.

This is off-topic, but kudos to you Hillary for using "loath" correctly. It is one of my pet peeves how many people will say "she's loathe to buy it" when loathe=hate and loath=reluctant. Just HAD to say that. lol

[Les]

"Empire State" was a grower for me. I don't think I warmed to it very much on the first listens, but I quite like it now, which is also how I felt about the Mirage album as a whole. "Eyes" and "Gypsy" and "Hold Me" were immediate favorites, but the others initially struck me as a little cold, which is strange because I now think of Mirage as a sunny, warm, summertime album. But anyway, as for "Empire State", any rock song that finds a way to make good use of a harp is okay in my book.

There's his song on Law & Order (one of those solo albums that apparently no one hears ) - called "That's How We Do It In L.A" - where he jokingly pokes at L.A. a little bit, feeling restless and a little distressed about his town. Feeling lonely, but compelled to stay there because it's the "only place" he can conceive of being. But in "Empire State" he seems to be flirting with New York, appreciating its energy and differences from L.A., and wondering if he could feel comfortable there.

I've always imagined that he wrote these two songs at about the same time or maybe when he was in a very similar state of mind, because "Empire State" just seems like the continuation of the thought he started with his L.A. song. He indirectly quotes from his L.A. song in "Empire State" with the line about how life in N.Y. is "not like we do in L.A." I know I always associate the two when I play one or the other.

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by Les

I've always imagined that he wrote these two songs at about the same time or maybe when he was in a very similar state of mind, because "Empire State" just seems like the continuation of the thought he started with his L.A. song. He indirectly quotes from his L.A. song in "Empire State" with the line about how life in N.Y. is "not like we do in L.A." I know I always associate the two when I play one or the other.

I've always wondered if "Empire State" was inspired by his trip to New York to be the musical guest on SNL. Or is the timeline wrong for that?

[Les]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

I've always wondered if "Empire State" was inspired by his trip to New York to be the musical guest on SNL. Or is the timeline wrong for that?

Seems like it's possible to me.

I think the NY music scene was more welcoming of New Wave and Punk than the LA scene initially was. As I recall, there was open hostility from some of the established L.A. bands, like the Eagles, toward the new musical movements emerging. Lindsey may have begun to feel a little out of place in LA given the direction his musical tastes had taken and NY probably seemed exciting and maybe more welcoming than his adopted home town at that point.

[ryan8472]

I hate the lyrics.....the music is good though.

[GypsySorcerer]

Empire State is one of Lindsey's worst IMO.... But overall, I don't mind Elvis Lindsey on Mirage.

[shackin'up]

Empire state is a great little fun song, played and produced with a lot of spunk. Oh diane is a nice little thing, but to my ears to much a style-copy. In ES he really turns the fifties style into Buckingham-language. That's why i like it.

PS: I like Mirage ten times better than Tango. I DO like all Lindseys tunes on Mirage, but Family Man? No. Slick drizzle, so Lindsey CAN do something wrong in FM. But on Mirage, his singing/screaming is superb. The way he sings Book of Love...greatness.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

This is off-topic, but kudos to you Hillary for using "loath" correctly. It is one of my pet peeves how many people will say "she's loathe to buy it" when loathe=hate and loath=reluctant. Just HAD to say that. lol

Thanks! I totally understand that coming from an English person. I'm something of an English person, too.

Hillary