Spoiler-Chris Isaak-Christmas!

[sparky]

Originally Posted by The Tower

I would LOVE to hear it! When did they do "What About Love" recently? I haven't heard that one live in a long, long time.

A pal sent me a recent cd from the last tour. I wish I knew the city !

I do like Travelogue. "Refuge of the Roads" and "For the Roses" were the highlights for me. I preferred Both Sides Now, though. Seeing her at the Greek Theatre for that tour was amazing- simply amazing.

My envy...Ugh. Lucky dog.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by The Tower

There is a difference for looking for beauty within things and striving and/or desiring for beauty to exist. Very rarely does anything live up to my expectations, but that does not mean that I'm going to stop trying to get them there.

I worry about making the world a better place... changing minds, bettering situations. That's when I care about something not living up to my expectations.
I don't sweat what I consider to be the small stuff, like a clunky lyric. Music is something I choose to ENJOY, not obsess over perfecting. It's a simpler beauty.

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I worry about making the world a better place... changing minds, bettering situations. That's when I care about something not living up to my expectations.
I don't sweat what I consider to be the small stuff, like a clunky lyric. Music is something I choose to ENJOY, not obsess over perfecting. It's a simpler beauty.

To me, music is the pinnacle of the life experience. So, I always want it to be great. That's why I'm picky. That's why I despise most rap/hip-hop ('cept Mary J. Blige- I looovvvvve her) and all this new "pop" crap. It's all soulless and dead.

I'm all for making the world a better place. However, most of that effort goes into quests that take quite a bit of time and quite a lot of energy from quite a lot of people. Most of that stuff I have very little direct control over, so I can understand that it takes 20 to 30 years to get gay marriage on the table.

Stevie has the ability to write great stuff. She has the ability to make the decision to mix it up a little bit and breathe life into their setlists. She has the ability to sing with conviction. However, she chooses not to do these things so many times- and with all those abilities available to her with just a thought. She doesn't need money. She doesn't need publicity. She doesn't need a record company. She doesn't need any of that stuff to take "her" at 56 years old and really do something special.

So, you can see how easy it is for me to want her to live up to my expectations. It's not that damn hard. Now, getting the US of A to get over its problem with homosexuality- that's hard!

[dissention]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Actually, I think she does- they are just different animals. I believe Stevie is greatly respected. Her art is evocative emotion. Joni's is skillful imagery. Bob Dylan's is universal communication. They're all great, they just do different things.

Stevie was on the right track for awhile, but then her train derailed. Releasing albums like Rock A Little and Street Angel only served to fan the flames of the crash. There is nowhere near the respect for the author of "Sister Honey" that there is for the authors of "Big Yellow Taxi" and "Tombstone Blues." To me, that's like saying VC Andrews is respected like Dickens. She's managed to put herself back on track a bit in recent years, but the damage is done. If anything, she's respected as one of the female pioneers of rock, nothing else, honestly.

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

stop being so friggin' worried about justifying her and excusing her to your friends, and just enjoy the music.

Pot, meet kettle.

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

When it comes to pop/rock music, I find that the more something is labored over and perfected, the less it affects me.

How in the world did you manage to enjoy TISL and SYW so much?

Originally Posted by The Tower

Exactly. I think Stevie has run out of stuff to write about.

Tell the man what he's won.

She hasn't really done anything original in years. It's all been pilfered from her old songs. There are only so many times one can write about dreams and the like before it starts to cloy on the listener. She's been using the same inspiration (i.e. Lindsey and ****ty boyfriends) for decades and it's old hat. When she gets away from that garbage, she positively shines. The song TISL is a glaring example of that.

Originally Posted by sparky

If only she could apologize to herself for stuff like Street Angel. Oh, wait, I think she already did that.

Anyone with a shred of self-respect would apologize for letting that beast roam free.

[strandinthewind]

With all due respect, it is a little unfair to compare Big Yellow Taxi to Sister Honey I would, however, put HAEWAFY up against it - even WITH the poet priedt of nothing line (hey - its grown on me LOL). Personally, I like Sister Honey though

[David]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

With all due respect, it is a little unfair to compare Big Yellow Taxi to Sister Honey I would, however, put HAEWAFY up against it - even WITH the poet priedt of nothing line (hey - its grown on me LOL). Personally, I like Sister Honey though

"Sister Honey" is Stevie's sublimest achievement. I would rank it in depth, rhetorical excellence, & sheer emotional power with the Book of Common Prayer.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by David

"Sister Honey" is Stevie's sublimest achievement. I would rank it in depth, rhetorical excellence, & sheer emotional power with the Book of Common Prayer.

I can remember JAMMING to it in college. Even now, when it comes on randonly on my comp. - I totally rock out. I think one reviewer appropriately called it a "funky little screamer"

Stevie is like Baskin Robbins and their 31 flavors - something for everyone

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

With all due respect, it is a little unfair to compare Big Yellow Taxi to Sister Honey I would, however, put HAEWAFY up against it - even WITH the poet priedt of nothing line (hey - its grown on me LOL). Personally, I like Sister Honey though

Just as it's unfair to compare the level of respect there is for artists like Joni Mitchell or Bob Dylan to Stevie. Mitchell and Dylan have solidified themselves in critic circles and public circles as two of the best that music has to offer, Stevie has not. When people say that Stevie has the same level of respect, it boggles the mind. Whereas you would put something like HAEWAFY next to Big Yellow Taxi, most people would laugh you right out of the room.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Just as it's unfair to compare the level of respect there is for artists like Joni Mitchell or Bob Dylan to Stevie. Mitchell and Dylan have solidified themselves in critic circles and public circles as two of the best that music has to offer, Stevie has not. When people say that Stevie has the same level of respect, it boggles the mind. Whereas you would put something like HAEWAFY next to Big Yellow Taxi, most people would laugh you right out of the room.

Who gives a ****e who laughs at me - it is my opinion and that is all that matters in the end. I mean some critics and people love Yoko Ono and all of her "art." Again, you are trying to assert your and other opinons on what I and others think is good if not great. It is an unwinnable argument because the "more people agree with me" argument is fallacious

As for the level of respect - wasn't it Bette M. that just called La Nicks the voice of a generation last week at her concert Many Many like her - yet you dismiss them so easily. I think you are being purposefully argumentative

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by dissention

Whereas you would put something like HAEWAFY next to Big Yellow Taxi, most people would laugh you right out of the room.

I wouldn't. I worship Joni, but "Big Yellow Taxi" really isn't one of her better songs. I think that "Has Anyone Ever Written Anything For You?" is better than it.

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by dissention

Mitchell and Dylan have solidified themselves in critic circles and public circles as two of the best that music has to offer, Stevie has not.

Critics, schmitics.... In 1975 the all-knowing critics thoroughly trashed Joni's Hissing of Summer Lawns. Nowadays, they slobber all over it as a masterful pre-cursor to "world music". The majority of Bob Dylan's catalog is complete and utter crapola.

I think getting into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a pretty good barometer of how much respect Stevie gets. I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't get inducted on her own.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by dissention

Pot, meet kettle.

I actually started writing an explanation of that comment when I initially made it, because I knew that I'd be introduced to the kettle (I also knew exactly who would be doing the introductions ).

The difference though, as I see it, is that I'm having these conversations here with other Stevie fans, as an attempt to explain why I don't feel the need to hand-wring over every clunky line. But I can, with complete honesty, say that I have NEVER tried to justify or excuse my love of Stevie's music to any of my friends. Ever.

It's the arrogant side of me, I guess. You either accept and appreciate me and the things I like, or you don't. And if you don't, it's your problem, not mine. I've got bigger fish to fry.

Originally Posted by dissention

How in the world did you manage to enjoy TISL and SYW so much?

Again, I'm talking about my opinion regarding lyrics. The instrumentation and production that surrounds it is something altogether different for me. That can be polished. It fact, I prefer that it is, because I can't stand to listen to something that sounds like it was recorded by a bunch of kids in their neighbor's garage.
But I prefer the lyrics to be raw, emotional, and off the cuff as much as possible.

Originally Posted by dissention

She hasn't really done anything original in years. It's all been pilfered from her old songs. There are only so many times one can write about dreams and the like before it starts to cloy on the listener. She's been using the same inspiration (i.e. Lindsey and ****ty boyfriends) for decades and it's old hat.

There's a very simple solution for that: Give up on her. Move on. Go listen to someone who you do find interesting and who you do feel still lives up to their potential.
Limit yourself to listening to Stevie's songs only up until "Gypsy," and then stop right there if you think her music has gone downhill since then and that she hasn't had anything original to say.

Either that or you just have to continue wishin' and hopin' and thinkin' and prayin' (and gnashin' and wringin' and bitchin' and moanin') about something that you have no control over.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Either that or you just have to continue wishin' and hopin' and thinkin' and prayin' (and gnashin' and wringin' and bitchin' and moanin') about something that you have no control over.

laugh: Actually, Diss has said he liked TISL (the song) and Silver Girl. So, there must be some light in his tunnel (vision )

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

laugh: Actually, Diss has said he liked TISL (the song) and Silver Girl. So, there must be some light in his tunnel (vision )

TISL is one of her best accomplishments. Silver Girl has some really sucky lyrics, but I like the vibe of the song and the image she paints.

Unfortunately, since I don't worship at the Altar of Stevie and fall head over heels for her current work, I'm not worthy to discuss any of it.

[David]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Again, I'm talking about my opinion regarding lyrics. The instrumentation and production that surrounds it is something altogether different for me. That can be polished. It fact, I prefer that it is, because I can't stand to listen to something that sounds like it was recorded by a bunch of kids in their neighbor's garage.
But I prefer the lyrics to be raw, emotional, and off the cuff as much as possible.

Once you set those as virtues in & of themselves, where does it logically proceed? Why not be done with the "poetry" completely -- with even its minimal semblance of formalism, even in a Stevie Nicks song -- & just come out to California to drive the freeways. You'll hear plenty of raw, emotional, & off-the-cuff language from some of the other drivers.

Of course, we're all guilty of the fallacy of confusing the content with the process. We're all drawing the mostly unsupported conclusion that Stevie's "rawness" & emotionalism are the result of penning her words immediately or letting them spill from her pen, unfettered by revision or any additional attention whatsoever. But we don't have anywhere near a complete idea of her process. For all we know, she worked on the "Rhiannon" words for months, twisting & pulling & replacing & mulling over, etc. The appearance of "rawness" might be as carefully tooled as a jet engine. The aesthetic response we have from a poem can't automatically be applied to the poet's process willy-nilly. Ginsberg's "Howl" sure produces that sense of immediacy & rawness in a reader, but it would be a mistake to conclude from that response that the poet didn't revise thoroughly, that he didn't calculate that effect, because in fact he did.

(However, it's my personal view that Stevie generally just grabs lines from her journals & slaps them down, which is probably what creates the triteness, woolliness & deafness to idiom that I often see in those lyrics. My hunch is that she essentially just copy-pastes from her journals onto the lyric sheet, without bothering much to form a more coherent expression. Still, if I love "The Nightmare" -- & I definitely do -- I can't ipso facto conclude that it was written any differently. It may have been, but it may not have been.)