My Thoughts On The Next Four Years

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by Patti

I've been pretty depressed the last 24 hours, as I know you all have been too, but I have decided, for me it's best to let the anger go for a while. I will be watching Dubya like a hawk, no doubt, but I refuse to let anger consume me. I think the best thing I can do is to be a watchdog and fight when the time is right.

I can't speak for all of you but I think the best thing we can do together is to figure out what *we* as Democrats did wrong and fix it. I'm not suggesting we abandon our principles, but over the next four years, we need to learn how to get the job done. Sadly, over half the country voted for Bush and his "moral" issues. I don't understand it, I don't agree with it, it truly puzzles me, but it's there. The word liberal has such a bad connotation now. We need to change that. I don't know how, but we will never reclaim the government if we don't.

JS and all my other gay friends here, my heart truly bleeds for you. It sickens me that there is so much hate out there for you right now. It's all about love and the religious right makes it all about hate and intolerance. I am confident that someday there will be a change and you will get the equal rights you all so deserve.

So chins up, guys. We don't need to "get over it", but we can channel that anger into something positive.

Thanks Patti. I totally agree. However, if this is the guy everyone wants, I feel totally lost in this country.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

This is one of the most disgusting, crude and hateful things I have read in a long time. It is none of your, nor our president's business who has an abortion and how many times they have them. Forcing women to raise children they cannot support is extremely judgmental and quite frankly, sick. You're all about the rights of the unborn, it's just once they're outside of the womb you want to cut social programs that help children. But you're okay with Iraqi babies/civilians being killed in an illegal war?

Word.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I am stunned you just typed that.

I have never maintained Gore did not win Florida - at least not after the final recount of all of Florida, etc. My beef was with the way Gore went about it in the legal system - he did not win Florida when you look at it that way, etc. Once again, I think I think too much

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Vianna

Will I get over this? After awhile no doubt but I will be watching him very carefully. I am hoping he'll hang himself by his own rope figuratively and get himself impeached.

Vianna, this is from Tom Freidman's column in the New York Times today and what you said made me think of it. I think a lot of us feel the same way.

Meanwhile, there is a lot of talk that Mr. Bush has a mandate for his far right policies. Yes, he does have a mandate, but he also has a date - a date with history. If Mr. Bush can salvage the war in Iraq, forge a solution for dealing with our entitlements crisis - which can be done only with a bipartisan approach and a more sane fiscal policy - upgrade America's competitiveness, prevent Iran from going nuclear and produce a solution for our energy crunch, history will say that he used his mandate to lead to great effect. If he pushes for still more tax cuts and fails to solve our real problems, his date with history will be a very unpleasant one - no matter what mandate he has.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Patti

I've been pretty depressed the last 24 hours, as I know you all have been too, but I have decided, for me it's best to let the anger go for a while. I will be watching Dubya like a hawk, no doubt, but I refuse to let anger consume me. I think the best thing I can do is to be a watchdog and fight when the time is right.

I can't speak for all of you but I think the best thing we can do together is to figure out what *we* as Democrats did wrong and fix it. I'm not suggesting we abandon our principles, but over the next four years, we need to learn how to get the job done. Sadly, over half the country voted for Bush and his "moral" issues. I don't understand it, I don't agree with it, it truly puzzles me, but it's there. The word liberal has such a bad connotation now. We need to change that. I don't know how, but we will never reclaim the government if we don't.

JS and all my other gay friends here, my heart truly bleeds for you. It sickens me that there is so much hate out there for you right now. It's all about love and the religious right makes it all about hate and intolerance. I am confident that someday there will be a change and you will get the equal rights you all so deserve.

So chins up, guys. We don't need to "get over it", but we can channel that anger into something positive.

I think the first place we need to focus our attention is the voting process itself. We need machines whose are made by companies that are not in the pockets of the Republicans. Did you all know that the chairman of Diebold promised to bring in the electoral votes from the state of Ohio for his buddy Bush? And that the Secretary Of State in Ohio was the chairman of the Ohio committe to Re-elect Bush Cheney? Sound familiar?
Anyway, I am going to post an article on some of the problems that were experienced by voters in Ohio. It will break your heart.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by hypnotized

Bush has become too cocky and power drunk. I foresee a scenario where Dubya will make an errr in judgement so grave it will result in his impeachment.

Yeah, but we don't want Cheney. WE DON'T WANT CHENEY!!! Or, how does that work in impeachment? Do we get our ****ty v.p. or is there another election?

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

Yeah, but we don't want Cheney. WE DON'T WANT CHENEY!!!

I foresee Cheney going down over Plame, Halliburton or both.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I foresee Cheney going down over Plame, Halliburton or both.

While I would LOVE for that to happen, I think a little over 1/2 of Amercia could care a less - I mean these issues were out there in the election and that did not stop W from getting 52% of the vote. I think that sucks, but reality is reality

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

While I would LOVE for that to happen, I think a little over 1/2 of Amercia could care a less - I mean these issues were out there in the election and that did not stop W from getting 52% of the vote. I think that sucks, but reality is reality

Yes but Plame is still before a grand jury and the word was that indictments were being held off until after the election.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Yes but Plame is still before a grand jury and the word was that indictments were being held off until after the election.

I hope you are right, but I am fearfull

[dissention]

Originally Posted by larg

All I can say is, I hope all of the Democrats on here can get over their losing this time faster than they did last time (So basically, any time withing the next four years) because it's really tiring listening to you all complain about how your candidate lost and shouldn't have and how Bush is so terrible. It gets old. Open your eyes and look at some of the things that he's done that AREN'T so bad... Not that I'm saying the man is a genius or anything, and I agree he hasn't been the best President; but he has a very hard job, one I wouldn't want, and I think that he's done the best that any mortal human being can do. Maybe John Kerry WOULD be a better president... we have no way of knowing now. I'm just asking that all of you, rather than miserably "suffering" through the next four years, try to look at Bush in a more positive light. He's done some pretty good things; he took an evil dictator out of power (even if it was for his own, selfish and bad reasons. Read some things by the philosopher Hallie some day and you'll begin to understand that sometimes we have to look at the product, not the means, to judge a person), he's helped make it more difficult for women to use abortion to EXCESSION (that is, he's prevented women from having more than one or two abortions-- I know at least two people who have had in the abortions DOUBLE DIGIT numbers, and this prevents them from that ability; they now have children, yes, but they also regret their past ways because of having children and the abortions becomming difficult. Not to mention they both have various internal problems that are excrutiatingly painful due to abortions), and he's created programs that make it possible for me, a 3rd class 18 year old white male who was a straight A student through high school go to a good college and NOT be paying out of my ears for the rest of my life. I respect the things he's done. If you democrats can ignore Clinton's oral sex affair AND his lying to the country, why can't you look past the couple of flaws our President has? Besides, don't you think we could get more allies in this war we're in if people in other countries saw that we SUPPORT our president?
Please take time to consider what I've said, because I've tried to be polite and intelligent about this all, and its stuff I've been wanting to say for quite some time. I've dealt with all the democrat stuff here with a pinch of salt, the anti-Bush remarks that are undying, the sometimes crude and offensive images that tag posts, and the sometimes ignorant things people say here. I don't see how you all think you are so great, when you daily call republicans stupid, greedy and any other list of mean names. Seems to me sometimes like you are a bunch of kindergarteners who need depserately to grow up.
Finally, I wish to thank all of you who DO act respectively in all of this pish posh. It's refreshing to see that there are people in the world who can accept my views and my right to my opinions, even if they disagree. I can accept yours. Maybe you should try my method sometime; you'll find yourself surrounded by more friends because of it, as well as in some very interesting conversations that in the past were either one sided or formed as crude attacks.
One final thing, even though I am republican, I admit, I AM pro-same-sex marriage. It IS about love, after all, although I do agree it would be a type of desecration to the Christian religion to have Christian same-sex marriages, although I see no reason why two lovers cannot wed technically and have it acknowledged by our country. So my heart does go out to all of you who feel you have lost hope. Although maybe being a Mainer I'm ignorant, so please fill me in; why do you believe it's less likely to ever see such a law now with Bush? Wasn't Kerry ALSO against same-sex marriages? Forgive me for being confused.
Thank you all for taking the time to listen to me, and any rude comments made by people who say I'm dumb or ignorant, expect a letter from me personally trying to prove other wise. If there's one thing I hate, its people who think they are better than someone else simply because they have a different opinion.
God bless you all and the beautiful country we live in that TRULY gives US the choice to make these decisions.
Do you think Sadam or Bin Laden were elected by the people?
That's what makes this country fantastic.
Please don't forget that.


Adam R.

Bite my ass.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Bite my ass.

OMG - I posted something similarly pugnacious - but soon thereafter deleted it becuase I thought it to crass. SO - glad to have you back!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

OMG - I posted something similarly pugnacious - but soon thereafter deleted it becuase I thought it to crass. SO - glad to have you back!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just what does he think is going to happen? He's bitched before about paying "half" of his paycheck in taxes because he wants to abolish welfare, but wait until he's drafted to Iraq and he gets his combat paycheck. He'll die from shock if a bullet doesn't hit him first.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Just what does he think is going to happen? He's bitched before about paying "half" of his paycheck in taxes because he wants to abolish welfare, but wait until he's drafted to Iraq and he gets his combat paycheck. He'll die from shock if a bullet doesn't hit him first.

I know - and W will send him there ill equipped and he can hope his parents have enough $$$ to buy him the needed supplies

I fly just about every other week and see hundreds of soldiers either going to or coming from Iraq - some returning for good and some on a five day furlough (sp.? ) It breaks my heart to see them. But, they, unlike W, have my FULL support.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I know - and W will send him there ill equipped and he can hope his parents have enough $$$ to buy him the needed supplies

I fly just about every other week and see hundreds of soldiers either going to or coming from Iraq - some returning for good and some on a five day furlough (sp.? ) It breaks my heart to see them.

He should talk to Lila Lipscomb.

Bless every soul going to Iraq, I feel their pain moreso now than ever.