What the hell is going on!?

[Janet]

If you think I am better than you because I don't do drugs, I do not.

If you think that I look down on those who willingly take pills/drugs just to "feel good", I do.

It's none of my business but why should we let anyone say taking drugs is great, it's cool, it makes you feel good. Drugs ultimately kill, you know that??

I literally watched my dad die of a drug overdose. I literally have watched people get very sick on drugs. Hell, I have even partken in pot smoking and gotten very ill from it.

It's no good. It's never good. It should never be seen as good.

It's not your personality, it's not your sense of humor, it's not anything about YOU Lux, we are all different kinds of people. SO DO NOT take this personally.

It's ONLY because you glorified drug use. THAT IS ALL.

[chiffon head]

Originally Posted by ThinLine

I have said I don't like it and I've also said I am not speaking out for ALL mysterious lurkers

I've got it dissention, you are not interested in what other people think unless they post here and more important, unless they post their opinion everytime they see something that they think is wrong. Like I said, not everyone feels that way and if you don't like what I'm posting, ignore it, but I'll post it if I think it's relevant to the conversation. You don't get to decide what's relevant and every conversation and post does not have to appeal to you and a small group of posters. If it doesn't interest you move on or ignore it.

Get ready to hit your ignore function if you don't want to read it again.

There are people who consider themselves part of this fan community and who may not post on this board or every board or any board, and are tired of seeing site owners harassed and/or disprespected on their own sites. I'll also throw in that there are fans who do post on this forum and share these feelings but they are afraid of the backlash and bull***** from bullies, but are afraid to speak up. I'm speaking for myself and I'm stating what I know other people have voiced to me. If you and others aren't interested there's enough other conversation going on that you can debate someone else over what you think is relevant conversation for this site.

If you'd like to curse me out in your head, go right ahead and I hope you enjoy it

Rock on Thin LIne! I ageree with what you're saying. I can only wish that I had the talent to express myself in written words the way some of you do around here at times, but I do agree with you and all that you have said in this thread. Thanks.

Renee

[Janet]

Renee, I know what you mean. I also feel I cannot express myself as well as some do on here

[dissention]

Originally Posted by ThinLine

I've got it dissention, you are not interested in what other people think unless they post here and more important, unless they post their opinion everytime they see something that they think is wrong.

Exactly! You got it!

I could care less what people think unless they pipe up. I try not to waste my time worrying about what is bothering people I've never had the opportunity to converse with or post with; it's futile and a waste of time.

Originally Posted by ThinLine

Like I said, not everyone feels that way and if you don't like what I'm posting, ignore it, but I'll post it if I think it's relevant to the conversation. You don't get to decide what's relevant and every conversation and post does not have to appeal to you and a small group of posters. If it doesn't interest you move on or ignore it.

Get ready to hit your ignore function if you don't want to read it again.

There are people who consider themselves part of this fan community and who may not post on this board or every board or any board, and are tired of seeing site owners harassed and/or disprespected on their own sites. I'll also throw in that there are fans who do post on this forum and share these feelings but they are afraid of the backlash and bull***** from bullies, but are afraid to speak up. I'm speaking for myself and I'm stating what I know other people have voiced to me. If you and others aren't interested there's enough other conversation going on that you can debate someone else over what you think is relevant conversation for this site.

If you'd like to curse me out in your head, go right ahead and I hope you enjoy it

I think I'm perfectly capable of knowing when and when not to use the ignore function; that's my decision, not yours.

Also, give me an instance of the site owners being harrassed and disrespected on this site. It's never happened from me and I've never seen others do it. Questioning what happens is much different that harrassing, but you obviously can't differentiate between the two.

Again, if they don't like what's going on, join in on the conversations and make an attempt to change things, don't just sit back and complain. Heck, what I've seen from you is just non-stop harping; I've yet to see you actually partake in an on-topic discussion.

[ThinLine]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

The entire fan club controversy had a tremendous public impact not just for long-time Ledgies or frequent posters at this board. It also had far reaching impact on the general public. Internet fan clubs are a huge unregualted enterprise which unscrupulous people have exploited to the detriment of all. A personal beef with someone at another message board which then turns into a personal feud played out across various message boards is another matter. I often agree with some of the unpopular things Carne has to say, but I disagree that something is wrong with the way Ledge moderators handled the fan club debate. The Ledge owners and mods went out on a limb to uphold the concept of free speech when it was truly worth the public good, and potentially to their own detriment. I don't see that as comparable to allowing free-wheeling debate about strictly personal disagreements. I understand others might see it differently. I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank Marty and the Ledge mods once again for providing an open forum for fans to express uncensored opinions about the fan club when nobody else with anything at stake would do the same.

Great point. Many of those people who were abused by Mick's site and ripped off by the fanclub were new, or unknown, or previous lurkers. Many didn't want to speak out publicly but that didn't mean that their opinions or what happened to them was irrelevant or not to be taken seriously because every single one of them would not speak out publicly. I believe 500+ people signed the petition to remove the fanclub and make them accountable, but not every single one of those fans were known or current active posters here on the Penguin site. Not every single one of those people posted here and continued the fight to rid the fanclub of Sabremark, but the fans here knew they were out there and knew how they felt.

Kudos to the Penguin for standing up for and with the fans who had been abused, even if many of the regular posters here did not get ripped off or were not the ones thown out and abused at Mick's site. The regular posters here at the Ledge put up with a huge amount of threads about the fanclub debacle and rarely complained about its impact on this message board.....so Kudos to the members of the Ledge!

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Lux

Oh what happy chums you are. Oh how you patronise with those stupid smilies and your statements which evidently have no basis for argument and infact appear slightly dumbfounded in the light of counter aggression. Is it little wonder that when you accuse somebody of being stupid and inferior, they might be inclined pull you up and suggest that indeed they are not? Rather they might be inclined to suggest that you are randomly picking a situation with which you seem to think you can increase your own sense of worth.

Do go ahead and reply with something resembling a statement consisting entirely of an accusation of my own drugged-out, worthless state being reason to dismiss anything I shall say. No please, do go ahead.

Oh how I do wish I could be you. A false sense of superiority appears easy to come by when you believe you are of higher human standard due to a lack of controlling stubstance intake. How heart-warming and indeed liver-warming of you to go trampling on the very people who probably need it the least.

Frankly, I think you come across as not only desperate, but starved for attention, Lux. Why else would someone continually harp on their drug use and make off-handed remarks about being called a "little slut" as a child? For some reason, you feel the need to board-hop and express these things in various ways, whether it's posting pictures of yourself with a butcher knife to your wrist or pictures of yourself swallowing pills.

If by saying those things, you think I feel that I'm superior, so be it. But at least I had the balls to say it, whereas others just rolled their eyes and passed by your deranged absurdity. Though, according to you, I'm an "unjustifiably arrogant f*ck," so you should not be surprised that I mouthed off in your direction.

In the end, I could care less. I just find it amusing that, in your warped sense of reality (drug-induced or otherwise), you find it appropriate to abuse this site for such rambling and, in some cases, offensive nonsense.

That's all, I'm done with it.

[NoThatFunny]

Originally Posted by Livia

Originally posted by Lux:

I was perfectly happy staying out of the fray until I saw THAT! DAYUM, that was rude!

It also sounds vaguely like a threat.

[NoThatFunny]

Originally Posted by ThinLine

Great point. Many of those people who were abused by Mick's site and ripped off by the fanclub were new, or unknown, or previous lurkers. Many didn't want to speak out publicly but that didn't mean that their opinions or what happened to them was irrelevant or not to be taken seriously because every single one of them would not speak out publicly. I believe 500+ people signed the petition to remove the fanclub and make them accountable, but not every single one of those fans were known or current active posters here on the Penguin site. Not every single one of those people posted here and continued the fight to rid the fanclub of Sabremark, but the fans here knew they were out there and knew how they felt.

Kudos to the Penguin for standing up for and with the fans who had been abused, even if many of the regular posters here did not get ripped off or were not the ones thown out and abused at Mick's site. The regular posters here at the Ledge put up with a huge amount of threads about the fanclub debacle and rarely complained about its impact on this message board.....so Kudos to the members of the Ledge!

It is beginning to look like you've brought a lot of anger to this site, and I can't for the life of me figure out why. I keep seeing you fight with people. Your first posts were to fight with Lux, who looks like the last thing she needs is to get into another fight.

Who hurt you so much on other boards that you have to bring all that baggage over here?

[GardenStateGirlie]

I don't know whether to laugh, be totally appauled or completely outraged. Wow...I do wish that I would have made a bet after the board re-opened on how long it would take for people to drive it to **** again. Unfortunately, I would have won. I can deal with some people and outright rude and self-indulgent posts for a while, but i'd be lying out of my ass if I didn't say the latest batch of "sesame streeter" activity doesn't totally boggle my mind and make me want to NOT log on (as some have chose to do). Perhaps it's time for a lot of us to re-examine why it is we began to post here in the first place. I think we'll all see that we've gotten away from what tied us all together.

[ThinLine]

Originally Posted by dissention

Also, give me an instance of the site owners being harrassed and disrespected on this site. It's never happened from me and I've never seen others do it. Questioning what happens is much different that harrassing, but you obviously can't differentiate between the two.

Again, if they don't like what's going on, join in on the conversations and make an attempt to change things, don't just sit back and complain. Heck, what I've seen from you is just non-stop harping; I've yet to see you actually partake in an on-topic discussion.

This site owner was disrespected on this site in this thread. Just because you don't think so doesn't mean everyone agrees and sees it your way. Questioning what happens with respect for the person who provides a forum with his time money and energy is the very least someone can do. I can differentiate perfectly, Carne's original post in this thread was rude and disrespectful. We obviously have different opinions about respect, fine.

As for my harping, remembering glitterfades post about the fanclub problems last year reminds me of the timing of when you came to this site and what you were complaining about. As far as I can remember, you were not a well known poster here, you did not have a history of posting in on-topic discussions yet you were not told how to post, what was relevant to the site and you were not told about your non-stop harping about the fanclub. The long time members of this site didn't know many of the fans who came here complaining bitterly and taking over this board with endless posts about what did not interest many on this site. There was barely a complaint about having to scoll past 10 threads about the fanclub in order to get to the regular on-topic threads about the band and tour.

As I pointed out in my previous post to glitterfades, there were hundreds of fans who did not post about what happened to them and their unhappiness about the fanclub and Mick's site, but this community was interested in how they felt and wanted their support, even if that support was silent and only appeared as a signature on a petition. They didn't tell them their opinion was irrelevant and they couldn't sign the petition because they didn't want to post about their concerns and fustrations in this forum. Funny how fast you forget now that you've built up 7900 posts since you joined a short time ago.

[NoThatFunny]

Originally Posted by ThinLine

This site owner was disrespected on this site in this thread. Just because you don't think so doesn't mean everyone agrees and sees it your way. Questioning what happens with respect for the person who provides a forum with his time money and energy is the very least someone can do. I can differentiate perfectly, Carne's original post in this thread was rude and disrespectful. We obviously have different opinions about respect, fine.

As for my harping, remembering glitterfades post about the fanclub problems last year reminds me of the timing of when you came to this site and what you were complaining about. As far as I can remember, you were not a well known poster here, you did not have a history of posting in on-topic discussions yet you were not told how to post, what was relevant to the site and you were not told about your non-stop harping about the fanclub. The long time members of this site didn't know many of the fans who came here complaining bitterly and taking over this board with endless posts about what did not interest many on this site. There was barely a complaint about having to scoll past 10 threads about the fanclub in order to get to the regular on-topic threads about the band and tour.

As I pointed out in my previous post to glitterfades, there were hundreds of fans who did not post about what happened to them and their unhappiness about the fanclub and Mick's site, but this community was interested in how they felt and wanted their support, even if that support was silent and only appeared as a signature on a petition. They didn't tell them their opinion was irrelevant and they couldn't sign the petition because they didn't want to post about their concerns and fustrations in this forum. Funny how fast you forget now that you've built up 7900 posts since you joined a short time ago.

It does look like you are harping, and it does look like you don't know when to stop. You seem to want to perpetuate this fight, bringing up the same things again and again after some of these issues have been put to rest. You seem to want the last word and you're going to keep posting until this thing really gets out of control and the moderators have to come in and lock the thread. Why don't you take a deep breath, forget about all this and go make a positive contribution to other threads?

[ThinLine]

Originally Posted by NoThatFunny

It is beginning to look like you've brought a lot of anger to this site, and I can't for the life of me figure out why. I keep seeing you fight with people. Your first posts were to fight with Lux, who looks like the last thing she needs is to get into another fight.

Who hurt you so much on other boards that you have to bring all that baggage over here?

As I stated before I am tired of seeing site owners disrespected and harassed on their site, nothing more.

No one hurt me, no baggage, just tired of sitting back and not saying anything.

I notice you just got here a few days ago, but you're looking at my posting history and commenting about what I want to post about. Where have you been all this time, maybe we haven't seen your baggage yet

This must be a new practice here at the Ledge about posting history and how much on-topic posting you have to have before your opinions are relevant or questioned.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by ThinLine

This site owner was disrespected on this site in this thread. Just because you don't think so doesn't mean everyone agrees and sees it your way. Questioning what happens with respect for the person who provides a forum with his time money and energy is the very least someone can do. I can differentiate perfectly, Carne's original post in this thread was rude and disrespectful. We obviously have different opinions about respect, fine.

And just because you think so, it doesn't mean everyone agrees.

Originally Posted by ThinLine

As for my harping, remembering glitterfades post about the fanclub problems last year reminds me of the timing of when you came to this site and what you were complaining about. As far as I can remember, you were not a well known poster here, you did not have a history of posting in on-topic discussions yet you were not told how to post, what was relevant to the site and you were not told about your non-stop harping about the fanclub. The long time members of this site didn't know many of the fans who came here complaining bitterly and taking over this board with endless posts about what did not interest many on this site. There was barely a complaint about having to scoll past 10 threads about the fanclub in order to get to the regular on-topic threads about the band and tour.

Your point? I came here after getting banned from Mick's site like twenty other current posters, yet that has no bearing on this conversation one bit. In case you've forgotten, our conversation is about people who come here, don't like it, yet don't pipe up. I piped up on Mick's board (and was subsequently banned) and I pipe up on this board quite infrequently. When I see threads being locked for silly reasons or being deleted (unjustifiably in the past, IMO), it reminds me of that ****ty board over on Mick's site, which this place isn't. If you don't think I should say such things, all I can say is tough tacos.

When I joined, I didn't just use this place to complain, I used it to discuss the band, something you have rarely, if ever, done. Hell, I never even started one of the threads about Mick's board that you're currently fixated on.

Originally Posted by ThinLine

As I pointed out in my previous post to glitterfades, there were hundreds of fans who did not post about what happened to them and their unhappiness about the fanclub and Mick's site, but this community was interested in how they felt and wanted their support, even if that support was silent and only appeared as a signature on a petition. They didn't tell them their opinion was irrelevant and they couldn't sign the petition because they didn't want to post about their concerns and fustrations in this forum. Funny how fast you forget now that you've built up 7900 posts since you joined a short time ago.

Again, what bearing does this have in the dialogue that the two of us are having? None.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by GardenStateGirlie

I think we'll all see that we've gotten away from what tied us all together.

Good point, Marissa.

[ThinLine]

Originally Posted by NoThatFunny

It does look like you are harping, and it does look like you don't know when to stop. You seem to want to perpetuate this fight, bringing up the same things again and again after some of these issues have been put to rest. You seem to want the last word and you're going to keep posting until this thing really gets out of control and the moderators have to come in and lock the thread. Why don't you take a deep breath, forget about all this and go make a positive contribution to other threads?

Why don't you skip my posts and stop telling me what I should post about and how many times I should post. You're new here so perhaps you don't know that's there's an ignore function you can use to not have to see my posts.

Have you made enough positive on-topic contributions to this forum? Let me know the number everyone's looking for, maybe they told you when you joined the site.