Fourth Fritz Clip! Reconsider from 1967....

[David]

Originally Posted by ThinLine

As for taking sides, when I read your post (added to some of the comments that have been posted here already) I was responding to the feeling that fans were insulted to only be receiving clips.

As far as I'm concerned, clips are fine -- or no clips at all, or whole songs, or even pretty pictures of people's houses with the juniper tree in the front yard.

The thing I've never particularly cared for during my decades of collecting & watching others collect is the nonsense of announcing you have something but can't, or don't intend to, share it. That's actually a better description of carrot-dangling. (In fact, some of us have an even more colorful term to describe that, but using it would be to flout the FAQ.) If you have something you know the rest of the fans would love to have but you have no intention of disseminating it, announcing it is bragging about it. Our parents & teachers were supposed to have taught us at very young ages that bragging is not nice. I remember a nice young lady a couple of years ago got involved in some sort of silliness over an unreleased Lindsey Buckingham song that was up for bid on eBay -- for whatever reason, the announcement was made here on this forum that the song would not be shared, which, as anyone would guess, resulted in a lot of resentment & flaming. People justifiably felt at the time, why was the announcement made? What good did it serve? The answer was obvious: it feels great to the person bragging. But it's not nice. It's rude. Things like this used to happen on Usenet, too. Fans had this or that & didn't want to or were bound not to share the stuff, but went ahead & chatted merrily about it anyway in a public forum ... to the extreme & justifiable annoyance of others.

It's something to think about. I sometimes catch myself bragging about something, & think, "David, you're being an ass. Cut it out." The compulsion to brag is extremely powerful, but it can be fought.

[ThinLine]

Originally Posted by David

The thing I've never particularly cared for during my decades of collecting & watching others collect is the nonsense of announcing you have something but can't, or don't intend to, share it.

It's something to think about. I sometimes catch myself bragging about something, & think, "David, you're being an ass. Cut it out." The compulsion to brag is extremely powerful, but it can be fought.

Sometimes there are good reasons why people can't or won't share things, even if the people who want it may not want to understand, or aren't privy to all of the reasons why something can't be shared. Sometimes fans just assume they know all of the reasons, when in fact they don't.

By the same token there are a lot of FM fans who have a boatload of private material and don't want it shared with all fans and get mad at those who do choose to share it. Because of the ease and low cost of file sharing on fan sites, many new fans are able to build a collection so that they can one day trade. There are very few sites who will trade for blanks and many fans don't have anything a more experienced fan will want.

I suppose there are all kinds of reasons why fans share or don't share, or only share with their closest friends or groups. I guess its wrong to assume we know why someone does or does not do something if we don't know all the facts behind their decision.

[NoThatFunny]

Originally Posted by ThinLine

Sometimes there are good reasons why people can't or won't share things, even if the people who want it may not want to understand, or aren't privy to all of the reasons why something can't be shared. Sometimes fans just assume they know all of the reasons, when in fact they don't.

This is an interesting discussion. But if may bold enough to interpret what David was saying, he is making the very reasonable argument that if you have something you don't want to share, it makes no sense to talk about it, or brag about it, with other fans who will naturally also want to get their hands on it. I think his point is a good one.

[ThinLine]

Originally Posted by NoThatFunny

This is an interesting discussion. But if may bold enough to interpret what David was saying, he is making the very reasonable argument that if you have something you don't want to share, it makes no sense to talk about it, or brag about it, with other fans who will naturally also want to get their hands on it. I think his point is a good one.

I agree with people who brag about it. But not every case is the same and just because fans find out one person has something, that doesn't mean the person who has is now obligated to share it. Sometimes not everything about a situation is known and people just assume things they really shouldn't.

[bjk3047]

Originally Posted by ThinLine

I agree with people who brag about it. But not every case is the same and just because fans find out one person has something, that doesn't mean the person who has is now obligated to share it. Sometimes not everything about a situation is known and people just assume things they really shouldn't.

I'm sorry, but all you're doing is making completely nonspecific comments. If indeed Javier has 'unknown' elements to his 'situation', he's got a forum to voice it. We're forming quite reasonable and structured arguments. You're just saying 'Well, you could be wrong. I know nothing about anything, but you could be wrong.'
It's a bit unnerving.

[ThinLine]

Originally Posted by bjk3047

I'm sorry, but all you're doing is making completely nonspecific comments. If indeed Javier has 'unknown' elements to his 'situation', he's got a forum to voice it. We're forming quite reasonable and structured arguments. You're just saying 'Well, you could be wrong. I know nothing about anything, but you could be wrong.'
It's a bit unnerving.

Umm, I think you need to back up in the thread. My comments were made in reference to David's comments about fans withholding music from other fans. I was not and have not been talking about Javier and the tracks he is now posting on the Penguin.

By the same token and since you brought it up, I don't know anything about Javier's situation and yes, for all any of us know he might have reasons why he is doing things the way he is, or this is simply his choice to handle it the way he has been. I don't feel Javier has to voice anything in this forum or any other. He owns the tracks and the songs and they're his to do with as he likes.

[David]

Originally Posted by ThinLine

My comments were made in reference to David's comments about fans withholding music from other fans.

But I made no such comment qua comment. Instead, I commented about bragging: publicly announcing that you have no intention of sharing what you have. It's an entirely different issue from someone who merely decides he won't or can't share. I have no problem with the latter; what a person does with his stuff is none of my business.

If I had something I wasn't going to -- or couldn't -- share, other fans would never know. (At least, I'd like to think so.) But if I went around to all the message boards & newsgroups just to chirp, "This never-released Stevie Nicks album is amazing, but you'll never hear it," other fans would be fully justified in thinking me a horse's ass.

Is this distinction between stances clear? I hope so this time, because my comments are so invariably misunderstood, & I'm certain the problem isn't my verbal skills.

Incidentally, I think Javier should tell the record companies to take a hike, & release his Fritz music (I hope he has some concerts, too!) online. The esteemed Rickie Lee Jones has a great system going for her fans: a large selection of new & previously unreleased music, in CD & MP3 format, on a pay-per-download system. Her CDs are found at: http://snipurl.com/8nh1. The MP3s themselves are at: http://snipurl.com/8nhb.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by David

As far as I'm concerned, clips are fine -- or no clips at all, or whole songs, or even pretty pictures of people's houses with the juniper tree in the front yard.

The thing I've never particularly cared for during my decades of collecting & watching others collect is the nonsense of announcing you have something but can't, or don't intend to, share it. That's actually a better description of carrot-dangling. (In fact, some of us have an even more colorful term to describe that, but using it would be to flout the FAQ.) If you have something you know the rest of the fans would love to have but you have no intention of disseminating it, announcing it is bragging about it. Our parents & teachers were supposed to have taught us at very young ages that bragging is not nice. I remember a nice young lady a couple of years ago got involved in some sort of silliness over an unreleased Lindsey Buckingham song that was up for bid on eBay -- for whatever reason, the announcement was made here on this forum that the song would not be shared, which, as anyone would guess, resulted in a lot of resentment & flaming. People justifiably felt at the time, why was the announcement made? What good did it serve? The answer was obvious: it feels great to the person bragging. But it's not nice. It's rude. Things like this used to happen on Usenet, too. Fans had this or that & didn't want to or were bound not to share the stuff, but went ahead & chatted merrily about it anyway in a public forum ... to the extreme & justifiable annoyance of others.

It's something to think about. I sometimes catch myself bragging about something, & think, "David, you're being an ass. Cut it out." The compulsion to brag is extremely powerful, but it can be fought.

That was Peacekeeper from the ACLU sampler.

And the sma ething happens with Lindsey's version of Bill Yellow Taxi every once in awhile and the person bragging about it tells a tale about not being able to circulate it or else someone in the record biz will lose their job.