Fourth Fritz Clip! Reconsider from 1967....

[BellaDonna98]

Originally Posted by dissention

Agreed.

Thing is, this material is never going to be made commercially available. From what I've heard, the tapes themselves have considerable noise and sound very dated, especially for studio and soundboard material. I don't think anyone is going to want to invest in fixing them up, manufacturing the product, and marketing it if, at best, 5,000 copies are going to be sold. It isn't realistic.

The music itself really has no market value. With the exception of us die-hard fans, who in the hell has ever heard of Fritz? No one and we'd be the only people to buy the product. Plus, we can't even get Buckingham Nicks on CD, I highly doubt we'd get this stuff.

That's exactly my point. The BN master tapes got lost? Whatever. Lindsey's holding out.

It's a pipe dream that Fritz's stuff will ever be released. If Javier was in it for the music he'd post full songs. It's the money he could get if it was a release. How else do you explain it? Otherwise wouldn't he be willing to share?

[glitter_fades]

Originally Posted by christinaliz

I agree. It is disheartening. This isn't a question of playing fair. Javier owes us nothing. We're being treated to some rare recordings we thought we'd never hear. I look at that as a very positive thing. If he should decide to eventually release these in their entirety, we should pay for them just as we would for any other artist. I, for one, love carrots... As for there not being a demand, obviously there is. Someone out there made $1500 off 2 singles, however illegal that was. Not too shabby, I'd say. Again, thank you Javier.

Christina

It makes sense Javier might want to benefit from his stewardship of these recordings. Just the same, the only fans interested in them are hard-core fans like us. Does it really make sense to tease and irritate your only audience? No, Javier doesn't owe fans a thing. True. It's also worth noting there may be a limit to how long these recordings are worth anything to anyone. I find it hard to believe these recording would ever get the interest of a record label. If Javier wanted to share his treasure he could. We'd be very grateful for the opportunity to hear whatever he has in it's entirety. There must be something that can be done to bring these recordings to fans who'd appreciate them AND give Javier his just rewards?

Of course that assumes Javier does not overestimate their true worth. They're only worth something to us, not the general public. It's obvious some fans don't agree with the way Javier's playing his hand. I'm not speaking for everyone, but to some people the snippets are more of an insult than a treat. I personally am not intersted in hearing these little bits. I might pay something to hear the entire songs, but the snippets might be lessening my interest more than anything. Also, some fans are losing interest in Fleetood Mac again with the tour over and no new project on the horizon. Some food for thought.

Maybe Javier should take a page from the boolegger's playbook and auction his goods to the highest bidder? To me $1500 for two singles was ridiculous but that's just me. If Javier has the legal rights to these recordings I see eBay as one way he might get financial rewards. He could also post complete songs for a download fee, or he could release his own cd for sale here on the Penguin like Bob Welch did. There are ways to satisfy everyone if folks see reason. The snippets...the snippets just aint gonna do it, Jav.

[ThinLine]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

It makes sense Javier might want to benefit from his stewardship of these recordings.

Of course he might, they belong to him and he can do whatever he likes. If he thinks and chooses to charge for them, that's his right, they're his songs and his recordings.

It's obvious some fans don't agree with the way Javier's playing his hand. I'm not speaking for everyone, but to some people the snippets are more of an insult than a treat. I personally am not intersted in hearing these little bits.

I'm sure it was never Javier's or Marty's intention to insult any fans by offering good size clips of these songs. I think it's insulting to Marty and Javier to complain about them. If you and others are not interested in hearing them and feel insulted, please spare Marty, Javier and the rest of the fans who are interested.

There is a growing trend in thinking that all music should be free, just as the fan sites that host this music and provide the music are offered free to fans by a handful of FM site owners. It's laughable to think that the same fans who are complaining and feel insulted at the carrots being dangled in front of them would actually end up paying for the songs if Javier did actually release them for a fee online. They'd be swapped around in record time. Yea, yea, yea, we've all heard it before, the fans will pay for things just give it to them. I tend to think that group is smaller and smaller and the more music that's provided free since the fan sites started regular file sharing, makes me realize that very few would pay.... and most (regardless of income and ability to pay) would be swapping them left and right.

For the people who feel insulted and are questioning motives, it's simple, don't listen to the clips and pretend they don't exist and let the fans who are interested and appreciative enjoy them. Try not to insult Marty and Javier and ruin it for everyone else.

Thanks to Marty and Javier for giving the fans an oppportunity to listen to this long lost music.

[CarneVaca]

It's laughable to think that the same fans who are complaining and feel insulted at the carrots being dangled in front of them would actually end up paying for the songs if Javier did actually release them for a fee online.

Did you ever download the Gift of Screws files? Did you buy "Say You Will?"

I know of bands that make individual songs available for free in their sites before even releasing albums. And then the fans who download the songs go buy the albums.

Are you speaking for yourself?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Did you ever download the Gift of Screws files? Did you buy "Say You Will?"

I know of bands that make individual songs available for free in their sites before even releasing albums. And then the fans who download the songs go buy the albums.

Are you speaking for yourself?

ITA - I did and bought many copies of SYW and would do the same with GOS - if he EVER releases it

[glitter_fades]

Originally Posted by ThinLine

I'm sure it was never Javier's or Marty's intention to insult any fans by offering good size clips of these songs. I think it's insulting to Marty and Javier to complain about them. If you and others are not interested in hearing them and feel insulted, please spare Marty, Javier and the rest of the fans who are interested.

There is a growing trend in thinking that all music should be free, just as the fan sites that host this music and provide the music are offered free to fans by a handful of FM site owners. It's laughable to think that the same fans who are complaining and feel insulted at the carrots being dangled in front of them would actually end up paying for the songs if Javier did actually release them for a fee online. They'd be swapped around in record time. Yea, yea, yea, we've all heard it before, the fans will pay for things just give it to them. I tend to think that group is smaller and smaller and the more music that's provided free since the fan sites started regular file sharing, makes me realize that very few would pay.... and most (regardless of income and ability to pay) would be swapping them left and right.

For the people who feel insulted and are questioning motives, it's simple, don't listen to the clips and pretend they don't exist and let the fans who are interested and appreciative enjoy them. Try not to insult Marty and Javier and ruin it for everyone else.

Thanks to Marty and Javier for giving the fans an oppportunity to listen to this long lost music.

Whoa! I didn't say I felt insulted with the snippets being posted. I said some fans posting frustrations in this thread seem to think Javier is misplaying his hand. What I meant by that is some fans seem to be voicing frustration NOT because they think the music should be free, but becasue posting snippets seems insulting if fans get the impression Javier's only using Marty and this board to whip up interest in a commercial product in a teasing and annoying way. I want to be clear. This is my interpretation of some posts in this thread, not my own opinion. Also, I don't see why pointing this out is ruining anything for other fans. How so?

What I said about my own opinion is the snippets are not heightening my interest. I'm stating a fact that Javier might want to consider. It's ok if you feel otherwise. Most fans do. My statement is not intended to dismay fans who want to hear the snippets. If voicing honest opinions leads to having full songs released will everyone feel the same way about the unpopular posts? It's clear some fans think any type of negative comment will limit the possiblity of the music ever being available. I don't think that's true. Why does this discussion have to be one of taking sides? I don't see why Marty or Javier would get disheartened by posts that tell how all fans truly feel. Isn't that the real reason why these cuts are being posted here? If the music was posted here for pure enjoyment there would be no discussion. Since it appears this is more of a trial balloon on releasing the rest of what Javier has, why not be honest about our opinions? Again, I'm not trying to ruin anything for anyone. I'm stating an opinion about the way the whole thing is being funneled through this board. You don't have to agree. I'm not disheartened by anyone else's opinion. It's all good.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

If the music was posted here for pure enjoyment there would be no discussion. Since it appears this is more of a trial balloon on realeasing the rest of what Javier has, why not be honest about our opinions? Again, I'm not trying to ruin anything for anyone. I'm stating an opinion about the way the whole thing is being funneled through this board.

You make some valid points. This whole enterprise has always struck me as a way to stick your toe in the water without committing.

If Javier is interested in releasing the music for the solely sake fo folks enjoying, I agree that he should share the full songs. If he wants to make money from it, which I completely understand, he should do so as well. But the latter does not void the former. I think he could share the full songs and sell them later. But that's an argument I've already made.

[ThinLine]

glitter,

I obviously misunderstood your post

Originally Posted by glitterfades

I'm not speaking for everyone, but to some people the snippets are more of an insult than a treat.

I wasn't quite sure if you felt that way or you were expressing a general feeling you were getting from other fans.

As for taking sides, when I read your post (added to some of the comments that have been posted here already) I was responding to the feeling that fans were insulted to only be receiving clips.

[ThinLine]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Did you ever download the Gift of Screws files? Did you buy "Say You Will?"

I know of bands that make individual songs available for free in their sites before even releasing albums. And then the fans who download the songs go buy the albums.

Are you speaking for yourself?

Yes I downloaded GOS and yes I bought SYW. This is not what I was talking about.

Of course I'm speaking for myself.

I also saw a FM fan site post the bonus tracks to the Tusk and Rumours reissues for downloading. I see fans complaining about not getting extras from the band and when they give us something a fan site posts the tracks so people don't have to buy it.

Yes, there are a core group of fans who are going to buy the commercial releases of everything FM and it's members put out. IMO, I think there are many of those same fans who would not pay to buy Fritz recordings and wouldn't care if they received them by sharing files. I don't think you can compare the release of Lindsey's GOS tracks on SYW to Fritz recordings. While many of the core fans bought the reissues as soon as they came out, many did not buy them and once they had the bonus tracks from the fan site who chose to post them, I would bet many will never buy it. Perhaps those same fans would have downloaded them off of one of the major file sharing sites anyway. I'm only trying to make the comparison that for some fans those types of tracks are not in a class with new released songs from FM or one of its members.