The doc!!!

[David]

Originally posted by The Tower
Leonard Cohen may be a poet, but he can't sing for crapola....

Gray was a poet:

Th' applause of listening senates to command,
The threats of pain & ruin to despise,
To scatter plenty o'er a smiling land,
And read their history in a nation's eyes.

I think it's a bit fatuous to call every last songwriter a poet, as if every nice little song were a poem. Most rock or pop songwriting is just bursts of images & feelings. Good poetry is a lot more than that: it doesn't just describe events or moods; it has to suggest meanings beyond the specific description, & its wording (as potentially intricate & complex as mathematical equations) triggers associations that usually don't occur to us. This is one of the basic formulas of good poetry: movement from the specific to the general.

But nowadays everyone has his own opinion of what constitutes poetry, & I'm not going to dip my feet any farther into that morass.

[David]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Doggoneit, dissention, I just KNEW you were gonna quote "When I See You Again"!!!

To my dying day, I will argue that it's one of the most emotionally arresting songs she has ever recorded.

And when you die, I'll pick up where you left off, because I love that one, too.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I didn't really see anything wrong with Lindsey's suggestion..when Stevie is working on a Fleetwood Mac project it is a BAND project...the band is allowed an input on anything that is going to go on their record (now i know this isnt REALLY the case with this band)...but with any band, all band members input and often suggest changes for the songs, no matter who wrote them...Thrown Down albeit written by Stevie is a FLEETWOOD MAC song...and they deserve their input

Chris

[teedee]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Songwriting is not poetry.

"Now you're going home" is not poetry.

Very few songwriters can put poetry to music. Leonard Cohen, for instance:

Dance me to your beauty with a burning violin
Dance me through the panic till I'm gathered safely in
Lift me like an olive branch and be my homeward dove
Dance me to the end of love
Dance me to the end of love

Or:

Now in Vienna there's ten pretty women
There's a shoulder where Death comes to cry
There's a lobby with nine hundred windows
There's a tree where the doves go to die
There's a piece that was torn from the morning
And it hangs in the Gallery of Frost

stevie stating ,"its the poet that i am , this is how i write" you also have to remember when stevie writes in her journals sometimes she writes things down as a poem or in chants , then she goes back to them later on and puts them to ryme when working on her songs. so she is a poet in her own write, maybe what you consider a poet, is something you read as a poem, but stevie does write in her journal daily, and she does write like a poet, i have that clip when she was reading from her journal and it was an amazing clip to see exactly how she thinks and puts it to paper and then draws from it later to form her songs. when she composes a song , i think its correct for her to use what sounds write for her to make a song flow.. i love the way thrown down flows and i am glad she kept it the way she wanted it and that lindsey didnt push it . i think they both state what they want to say which is great that they can do that today, and then in the end they come to terms to agree that its ok after all is said and done.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by teedee
stevie stating ,"its the poet that i am , this is how i write" you also have to remember when stevie writes in her journals sometimes she writes things down as a poem or in chants , then she goes back to them later on and puts them to ryme when working on her songs. .

Compare the line "Now you're going home" to "Dance me to your beauty with a burning violin," and tell me which one is poetry.

Stevie has written some wonderful poetic lines, but for her to defend "Now you're going home" as beautiful poetry makes me question if she understands what poetry is. My sense is that she was digging her heels stubbornly because she didn't want to concede to her former lover.

Lindsey was right to point out the flaw but he was wrong in the solution. The better solution would have been to turn the whole song into first and second person. As for the verb tense, "fell for her" and "now you're going home," actually makes sense to me because it shows a time continuum.

[t.c.]

Originally posted by dissention
I felt like screaming at the TV "10 year olds don't want to hear even ONE song from a bunch of fiftysomethings!" Where in the hell did she get the idea that 10 year olds would buy their album?!

My niece is 10 and she is a huge Fleetwood Mac fan. She got the cd (and has most of their others too, and is working in getting all of them). She also saw them in concert, has their calendar, and t-shirt....

Plus I always see kids at Stevie and FM concerts.

[t.c.]

Originally posted by SteveMacD
I know I'll be in the minority, but I thought it was boring. It's interesting in that we got to see the album being recorded, but it didn't offer what I'd consider new insight into the band. My BIGGEST gripe is that they didn't have enough of John's sarcasm.

I loved the part when John was picking on Mick for talking too much and rambling on! lol! I have heard interviews with just Mick in the past, and I would always be so bored because he does just babble on about stuff that most of the time seems to dull. So that just cracked me up, hearing John say that.

[t.c.]

Originally posted by dissention
Of course not, but 800,000 17-27 year olds didn't buy it, either. I would bet money that thwo-thirds of the people that bought it were middle-aged, classic rock fans. Besides, the whole arguemnt of a double album not being successful is really bull**** these days. It's not the late-seventies where a double album was double the price. It's the new millenium and a double album is the same as a single disc.

The record business men know their stuff. You know how much money they put into their research? They wouldn't bother if it didn't aid their making the most possible money they could make. If a double album made more money, they'd be thrilled to see more double albums. Their goal is to make is much money as they possibly can. And I've never seen a double album/cd the same price around where I live anyways....

[t.c.]

Originally posted by Mike B
Yes, that was a cool moment! Stevie sounded so good. And
Also, what was that Lindsey said about only being paid royalties for 12 songs on an album? Huh? Is that a standard thing or a deal they had worked out or what?

He seemed the only one not interested in the money. Way to go Lindsey! Not that Stevie seemed greedy, just more practical. It was cool to see Lindsey fight for a double cd even though they'd lose money on it. I thought he was quite hot during the whole thing.Stevie too. And even Mick and John. They all looked so good.

I wondered too about how he said they only get royalties on 12 songs. How weird. So they gave us 18, and lost out on money? That's pretty cool of them.

I felt bad for Lindsey how it seemed like the record people knew he was wanting to do a solo cd but said how much better it would sell if instead he did Fleetwood Mac cd instead. That's gotta hurt. Hope he knows he's adored! And then some!

[t.c.]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Lux - you will love it because LB is great in it. Its just IMO sometimes his vocals leave me cold. The best parts of him on this IMO are him jamming on the guitar, which he does like no one else!

I would love to hear the guys just jam sometime. That'd be so cool. I'd go see a concert of just that. A nice little blue-sy club somewhere... But then I'd need a Stevie solo concert to get my Stevie fix in too - lol!

[t.c.]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
[BPersonally, I can never get enough new material, so 18 tracks was just great for me, and 23 would have been even better. But I also realize that not everyone is as willing to spend all their hard-earned money on Fleetwood Mac CDs, as I am. [/B]

Me too - I can never get enough. A thought just popped into my head. They should release one cd, then have a "volume II - Outtakes" also available. That'd be cool! All die-hard fans would buy it, and if they released a single from it and promoted it at the concerts, more would sell also (a video wouldn't hurt). Ahhh...wishful thinking. But I am so glad they had 18 songs on it. The more the merrier!

[skcin]

Originally posted by skcin
Could anyone make out what else was posted in the setlist? I tried to pause, but it was too blurry & writing too small. I did see Destiny (Rules), EFO, Illume, Monday Morning, but that's about it as far as differences go.

Watched it again last night - saw that Red Rover was on the list too.

Paula

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
My sense is that she was digging her heels stubbornly because she didn't want to concede to her former lover.

Lindsey was right to point out the flaw but he was wrong in the solution. The better solution would have been to turn the whole song into first and second person. As for the verb tense, "fell for her" and "now you're going home," actually makes sense to me because it shows a time continuum.

You're right, but perhaps Lindsey suggested the third person solution to refocus the song into generalities, and away from the blatant personal implications of a first person song written to her former lover.

"Maybe now you could prove to me, that you would be good for me - that we should be together." Awkward for Lindsey, eh? lol so the begging for forgiveness, the pleading for reunion, is given to the third person, and the goodbyes are in the form of direct addresses.

Of course, third person also eliminates the problematic "you" signifier shift, from "You" - Lindsey to "You" - herself.

"Now you're going home.... you can sit outside his door and wait"
Ahhh, Stevie! lol

Poetic license.

[CarneVaca]

I see your point, Nancy. Do you think of someone else, not Lindsey, had made the suggestion that she might have reconsidered?

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I see your point, Nancy. Do you think of someone else, not Lindsey, had made the suggestion that she might have reconsidered?

Well, I'm not Nancy (for which I'm sure she's thanking her lucky stars! *lol*), but I think that's a very good possibility, Carne... still, it's hard to say.

Obviously she's changed lyrics here and there, from the demos to the finished versions.
Some good examples of that, would be "you never showed me about the fire," turning into "you never told me about the fire," in "Sara," or "pick up the pieces and move on," becoming "pick up the pieces and go home," in "Gold Dust Woman," or a far more recent example... "it occurs to me that destiny rules," becoming "it appears to me that destiny rules."

But then, those are all relatively minor changes, and could also merely be examples of studio ad-libs, and not pre-meditated lyrical changes.

My feeling is that, if Stevie herself decides to change something, it's one thing... but if Lindsey tells her "this might sound better if...," then it might not be greeted with a lot of enthusiasm.

As a side note: I know that she was disappointed when John Shanks wanted to remove several of the verses from "Fall From Grace," because he felt the song was too long... but then they ended up compromising on it, and just removed some of the lines.
So obviously she is willing to make some changes for the betterment of a song (even if she initially balks at the idea), but maybe it's a case of choosing your battles, and deciding what material is worth fighting to keep, and what can be compromised on.