Lindsey AUS Article

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Still, at one point it was uncool to like Fleetwood Mac. It's never been uncool to like the Clash. And to dismiss punk as being a talentless art form is, well, just unfortunate. But I already made that point with my Mozart comment.

I still stand by my comment that, while punk musicians aren't necessarily without talent, it's hard to see where talent is a requirement to be a traditional punk musician.

And yes, of course people have said the same thing about rock and roll. But then, we're not talking about other bands here, we're talking about Fleetwood Mac... and I think they go far beyond a tag such as "rock and roll band."
They may not be trained musicians in a classical sense, but the music is nuanced and complex... not to mention being emotionally resonant.

I'm not a big fan of thudding drums and tuneless guitar screeches, but that's just me. It's ok when it's used for an occasional texture (a la 'Tusk'), but I don't want a steady diet of it.
And I realize that not all punk music is like that, which is why I said "the majority of punk music" before, rather than "all."
But a lot of what is considered to be truly "pure" punk, is like that... and that's what I'm referring to here, "pure" punk music.

As with any genre of music... classical, blues, rock, country, r&b, etc.... it all has value, and one should have at least some exposure to more than one type of music... but we don't have to love all of it.

I still have to question Lindsey's complaint about the "femaleness" of Fleetwood Mac's sound though, when none of his solo albums present any strong sense of masculinity and aggressiveness. You'd think that would have been his big chance to express that.

Maybe it goes back to the feelings he must have had when Loggins & Messina's tour manager, Jim Recor, would shout "get those broads off the stage," back when FM was opening for them.

Anyway, in regards to the whole "I wanted to be in the Clash" thing... in Lindsey's defense, I believe it was during a radio interview last year in which he said that that was his feeling in the late '70s, but that he wouldn't want to be in the Clash these days.
If I remember correctly, he added, "Have you seen them lately?"

[Carolina Girl]

Not to beat the dead horse, but ... I'm 35, live in the US, and I've heard of The Clash, but I can't even think of a single song by them. Rock the Casbah, maybe??? And that's only thanks to the MTV of old.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I still stand by my comment that, while punk musicians aren't necessarily without talent, it's hard to see where talent is a requirement to be a traditional punk musician.

Johnny, I still think you're being unfair. Would you consider Elvis Costello talentless? Were the Ramones talentless? Hell, John Lennon has been heralded by some as the original punk. Go listen to some of his early solo stuff. No talent?

Perhaps you're focusing on one iteration of punk that you don't value. But I submit to you that even playing three-chord thrash punk requires a level of talent. Don't believe me? Go to your nearest guitar store, pick one up and start playing a Ramones or Violent Femmes song.

And by the way, Nancy, Lindsey said he liked Eminem because Eminem is an incredibly talented wordsmith. Say what you want about his homophobia (alleged, because if you read some of his lyrics, it would be hard to reconcile that label) and his mysogynism, he is a huge talent. I don't see anyone else out there today writing at his level. Hell, even Bruce Springsteen said he's good. And if Bruce says so...

[dissention]

Originally posted by sodascouts
Bleh. I hate this interview.

I know this might offend some people, but Lindsey needs to stop gazing wistfully at The Clash. That trendy, dated group holds no frame of reference for most people who were born within the last THREE DECADES. A lot of his fans won't even know who the hell he's talking about. So much for standing the test of time. How sad that he doesn't realize how much better he is than that, how his music and work are so much stronger despite the fact that it was done within the confines of Fleetwood Mac. Perhaps Mirage was an exception but as a rule, when he asserted himself regarding the sound of his own music in Fleetwood Mac post-Rumours, he got his way, and that continues to this day.

Well, I'm only 24 and I *adore* The Clash. Maybe he's hoping that his fans will eventually discover The Clash after they read his glowing mentions of them? Anyways, I think most die-hard classic rock fans know of and love The Clash.

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
*lol*
And I've had that opinion since I was a teen!
But I'll concede that I was generalizing a bit with my statement. Though I didn't mean that punk musicians had no talent... simply that it doesn't really require talent to play punk music!

I have to say that I like the punk "spirit"... it's just that the execution typically leaves me cold.
I prefer music with textural shadings and subtleties, and I just don't find that in the majority of punk music.

My brother's a major punk fan, so I've been exposed to various and numerous punkers (hey, they exposed themselves first! ), and while I'll like a song here or there, I can't make it thru an entire album.

To be honest, I can't stand punk music. There is just something about The Clash that I love. I can't put my finger on it, but they have something magical going on, much like The Mac. Ever heard The Clash's "Train In Vain"? That song might turn you into a fan...

[shackin'up]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I still stand by my comment that, while punk musicians aren't necessarily without talent, it's hard to see where talent is a requirement to be a traditional punk musician.

I just pop in here, but "being a traditional punkmusician" can only be said in retrospective. To have the nerve and the guts and the idea of making such stomachturning music against the world's Led Zeppelins, Queens, Macs, Eagles and ABBA's, you HAD to have a certain amount of talent in terms of sensibility for new thoughts and visions. That's musical talent, too. Aside from brilliant simplicity as done by Fischer-z, The Jam (!) the Undertones AND sex pistols, gbh, dead kennedy's etcetera, although the latter three are not among my faves.

[wondergirl9847]

I like Eminem (HAH!!! I turned on the radio as Lose Yourself plays...weird) and he IS a talented wordsmith. I agree with Lindsey for having respect for his talent. I don't agree with everything Eminem says or believes, but I do like his music.

[dissention]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I like Eminem (HAH!!! I turned on the radio as Lose Yourself plays...weird) and he IS a talented wordsmith. I agree with Lindsey for having respect for his talent. I don't agree with everything Eminem says or believes, but I do like his music.

Oh, Christy!

Sorry, I think Eminem is a pig. Anyone who makes music that talks of raping their mother and beating her bloody is a real f*ck, in my opinion. I love how some people complain about gay marriage leading to the disintegration of our society, yet they have no qualms with letting their kids buy and listen to absolutle smut like Eminem. I see a bit of hypocrisy and a lack of common sense.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Johnny, I still think you're being unfair. Would you consider Elvis Costello talentless? Were the Ramones talentless? Hell, John Lennon has been heralded by some as the original punk. Go listen to some of his early solo stuff. No talent?

Perhaps you're focusing on one iteration of punk that you don't value. But I submit to you that even playing three-chord thrash punk requires a level of talent. Don't believe me? Go to your nearest guitar store, pick one up and start playing a Ramones or Violent Femmes song.

It's funny, because I actually like some of the artists you mentioned. I quite like Elvis Costello (of whom Stevie also happens to be a big fan), and I like some of the Violent Femmes' stuff (believe it or not).
I like the Ramones somewhat less so, but I've enjoyed some of their stuff.
Someone mentioned the Talking Heads earlier, and I know Blondie has also been referred to as a "punk" band in some circles, and I quite like Green Day, too.

But these are all artists that I tend to think of as being somewhat more "poppy" with punk sensibilities, rather than being punk traditionalists (sort of like the difference between 'Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac,' which was pretty straightfoward blues, and 'Then Play On,' which was more pop with a blues influence).

My brother owns some very hardcore punk albums (perhaps as an antidote to my Mac collection? *lol*), and I just can't get into it.
Which is why I tried to make the distinction when expressing my opinion.

I should also say that I do like some Clash stuff, just not all of it and not all the time.

[Cammie]

Just because we truly admire Lindsey
and his Musical Talents doesn't mean we
agree with him admiring that guy Eminem!

We thought it was... Enema when we first
heard his ugly words on tv!Guess Lindsey
wanted to be in an All Male Band such as...
The Clash...REM...Eminem OR the Eagles!!!
Maybe in his heart he is Really a Punker!


About the boy-toy comment You all know
Stevie is the older one and manuvered around
using LB as her boy-toy! Calling him... baby and
cutsie terms!!! He cut his curls to look tough and
we feel for him as it is embarrasing being a Pretty
Boy! Stevie went after all the Tough Guys... leaving
Lindsey to pine away!SAD!Go Your Own Way, Baby!

What was this about???? Oh, yes about Femaleness!
Perhaps it's 'Trouble' to have Females in a Band!!!Sky

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by Cammie
Guess Lindsey
wanted to be in an All Male Band such as...
The Clash...REM...Eminem and White Strips!

Meg White might actually have some objection to the White Stripes being referred to as an "all male band," when she's one-half of the duo! *hehehe*

Originally posted by Cammie
About the boy-toy comment You all know
Stevie is the older one and manuvered around
using LB as her boy-toy! Calling him... baby and
cutsie terms!!! He cut his curls to look tough and
we feel for himas it is embarrasing being a Pretty
Boy! Stevie went after all the Tough Guys... leaving
Lindsey to pine away!SAD!Go Your Own Way Baby!

I've never gotten the sense that Stevie ever treated Lindsey like he was some kind of toy-boy, because he's younger than she... or for any other reason!

In fact, the woman pretty much acquiesced to Lindsey for much of their early relationship, and she took various jobs so that Lindsey could have the luxury of staying home and honing his talents.

I feel they had a mutual respect for each other, and I don't for one second believe that either of them ever used the other. It's just that eventually differences crept into their relationship, and they began to need things the other couldn't offer them, so their romantic relationship became strained.

That it was ultimately Stevie's choice to end the relationship is no reason to demonize her, or categorize her as a "manipulator."

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Cammie
Just because we truly admire Lindsey
and his Musical Talents doesn't mean we
agree with him admiring that guy Eminem!

Did Lindsey say he admires him? I don't remember. If he did, he should have left it at saying the guy is a great talent.

Surely Linz would not want His Kid to spout
Eminem lyrics, would HE? That's not ART!

Who's to say that Lindsey's kids spouting Eminem lyrics is not art? Depends on the delivery, I say. Now, if you're saying Eminem's work is not art, who made you the judge?

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Did Lindsey say he admires him? I don't remember. If he did, he should have left it at saying the guy is a great talent.

His exact words were: "God love people like Eminem, who are really doing something great."

Excuse me while I puke. Interesting to invoke God in that context, isn't it? lol I just shook my head and wondered if he realized what he was saying.

(I referenced Neil's site http://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com to find the interview.)

[Cammie]

Sorry! We only saw a guy interviewed!!!
A Girl in White Strips!!! UGH!Hangs head!
That's what happens to ya' when one tries to
explain their womanly opinion about Lindsey!
Lindsey is the real deal! Doesn't color his hair to
be "cute"!Lindsey is just naturally sexy!Sky



CarneVaca: We are testy tonight!!!
My kids would get soap in their mouth
and you know what I mean!
If it makes you think you are winning a
great debate...that statement SHALL
BE DELETED TO KEEP THE PEACE! Sky

[CarneVaca]

I love the taste of soap in the morning.