Stevie Nicks' Feeling on Michael Jackson?

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally posted by misterbug
I am NOT saying that his bad childhood gives him free reign to molest children (if I have not made it clear before, I feel MJ is totally innocent of molestation charges). I AM saying his upbringing is a good explanation for his child-like behavior, which suggests he is NOT a molestor.



Where is your proof that he was lying about his pain? And even if he was, it just supports my theory that he is a child in his mind. It's hard to be more childlike than to exaggerate an injury to get something you want. Children lie like that all the time. I know I did.

Most of you people are confusing eccentricity with guilt.

Okay..you kind of proved other's points there...he's got a child-like mentality?? Children lie all the time!! Well....if he'll lie about something as ridiculous as plastic surgery (an actually think people will believe him) Then what's to stop him from lying about the molestations to save his own ass??

Also...didn't he have several siblings...who all grew up in the same family....now Latoya is eccentric...MJ is just plain chalk full of NUTS!!!!

[misterbug]

Listen, I'm glad you're so thrilled with him and that you think that his "bad childhood" gives him free reign to molest children. You're the ideal juror for his upcoming trial. He wants people just like you on the jury so he can get off and continue to molest children. Why he doesn't even need to supply his excuses--he's got people like you who are all too willing to do it for him. I think it was PT Barnum who said something about suckers being born every day. Congratulations, you prove Mr. Barnum correct.

First, Barnum said "There's one born every minute" (not day). If you are implying that I was sucked in by some smoke and mirrors act by MJ, think again.

MJ wants people like me on the jury because we have considered the evidence before just accusing him. You may find it hard to believe, but I have not always been an MJ supporter. At one time, years ago, I was like you--fumbling wildly in the dark, eager to point an accusing finger. Only when I began to look closer at the so-called "evidence" did I detect something rotten in the state of Denmark. Now that I have examined biographical details and looked closely at his eccentric behavior of today, I feel confident in proclaiming MJ is innocent.

I'm no sucker; I changed into an MJ supporter of my own volition after I examined all of the evidence. Furthermore, I have even persuaded other family members to my point of view, thanks to the strong evidence for MJ.

I would suggest you all take a serious look at the evidence, but since MJ-bashing is so safe, I doubt any of you will. As somebody above tried to say, there's a sucker born every minute. Well, you all seem to be eating up every little pellet of MJ misinformation doled out by the media. So, "congratulations, you prove Mr. Barnum correct".

[Mad4stevie]

Originally posted by misterbug
Where is your proof that he was lying about his pain? And even if he was, it just supports my theory that he is a child in his mind. It's hard to be more childlike than to exaggerate an injury to get something you want. Children lie like that all the time. I know I did.

Michael is NOT a child. Even if he is more like a child emotionally, he is an adult mentally and physically. He makes his own decisions about how to conduct himself, and should be held accountable. He is just used to controlling everything and everybody. He lives in a dream world of his own creation.

His lying about his pain and/or the reasons for it were evident by the fact that the video shows him thanking law enforcement for their kind treatment of him. It also shows him waving and flashing his "victory" sign with his "injured" arm when he is leaving the police station. Not to mention that during the interview, he said he couldn't raise his arm past a certain point because of the "terrible pain", and not one minute later, is seen on camera raising that same arm to smooth back his hair.

[Mad4stevie]

Originally posted by misterbug
I am NOT saying that his bad childhood gives him free reign to molest children (if I have not made it clear before, I feel MJ is totally innocent of molestation charges). I AM saying his upbringing is a good explanation for his child-like behavior, which suggests he is NOT a molestor.

Anyone with any any actual psychological knowledge knows that you can't say, "Just because Mr. X's childhood seems TO ME worse than MJ's, MJ must be guilty. If other people with completely different upbringings can survive and become 'healthy,' MJ must be guilty." Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. I can name many examples of cases where the patient had a GOOD upbringing with perhaps one bad event, who showed much stranger pathology than somebody with a "bad" abusive upbringing.

Do you have some type of job/education credentials that would allow you to make these assertions about psychology and the pathology of pedofiles? Just wondering . . . .

[Tango]

. . . from Stevie or the rest of FM for that matter Christopher. One would assume they are focusing on their own matters right now. I guess most people are waiting until the verdict comes in, but chances are good many people will speak up. Stevie wasn't too thrilled with Madonna's using Britney for "PR", saying Madonna was much too "old." But the Jackson matter is totally different. I can't imagine Stevie, Fleetwood Mac or most of the public will give Michael Jackson much slack, talented or not, if he is found guilty. But the trial is hardly even underway yet. He IS talented. I give the man his due, including his day(S) in court.

[misterbug]

Okay..you kind of proved other's points there...he's got a child-like mentality??

Yes, I said that he is child-like emotionally.

Children lie all the time!!

Yep, I said that too.

Well....if he'll lie about something as ridiculous as plastic surgery (an actually think people will believe him) Then what's to stop him from lying about the molestations to save his own ass??

MJ's child-like mentality is shown by, among other things, lies about seemingly unimportant details. When children lie, they frequently lie about insignificant acts. But they cannot sustain a lie about something major that everybody is breathing down their necks about. Children are notoriously bad liars when it comes to something significant. I can think of countless examples where I could lie about something minor (comparable to MJ's plastic surgery), but broke down when I tried to keep a lie going about something major (comparable to the allegations). One time when I came home from the 3rd grade and my parent accused me of being in a fight, I tried to lie but broke down quickly.

Also, your logic is faulty: "He told a minor lie, therefore, he is likely to tell a major lie and any important statements he makes are to be called into question." So since I lied about why I was late to class the other day--a minor lie--does that mean I should be suspected of lying when I say, "I don't know anything about the virus that's sweeping the university."? After all, I did tell a minor lie. So what's to stop me from lying about the virus?

About the other family members...they were often part of the problem. For example, MJ's brothers would frequently have sexual intercourse with girls in the same room as MJ, who had to lay awake and listen in confusion and alarm. Don't forget that MJ was *the star* though, which brought added pressure, which was compounded by his younger age.

[misterbug]

Do you have some type of job/education credentials that would allow you to make these assertions about psychology and the pathology of pedofiles? Just wondering . . . .

Yes, I am graduating from Boston College this year having studied psychology and psychoanalysis.

[misterbug]

Michael is NOT a child. Even if he is more like a child emotionally, he is an adult mentally and physically. He makes his own decisions about how to conduct himself, and should be held accountable. He is just used to controlling everything and everybody. He lives in a dream world of his own creation.

I know that MJ is not an actual child. He is a physical adult. But an emotional child. As you said, he lives in a "dream world of his own creation" and is "used to controlling everything and everybody." It sounds like you are describing a spoiled brat who daydreams and has imaginary friends.

I feel that for MJ, sex is not of interest. Notice how he speaks in a constant falsetto (that is not his real voice; his real voice is much deeper, and one can catch it during his concerts when he is out of breath from dancing and the lower voice accidentally pops out). I think his use of a falsetto is a denial (either on a cs. or ucs. level) of his sexual maturity and "manhood". He may not even realize he is doing it.

[Mad4stevie]

Originally posted by misterbug

Also, your logic is faulty: "He told a minor lie, therefore, he is likely to tell a major lie and any important statements he makes are to be called into question." So since I lied about why I was late to class the other day--a minor lie--does that mean I should be suspected of lying when I say, "I don't know anything about the virus that's sweeping the university."? After all, I did tell a minor lie. So what's to stop me from lying about the virus?

This is not faulty logic. This "lie in one, lie in all" idea is something that is used everyday in the criminal justice and court system. That is why Jackson is going to have an uphill battle when it comes to his credibility at trial. This is why no defendant show give a statement or interview to the media when charges are filed against them. More often than not, it just gives ammunition to the prosecution.

[Mad4stevie]

Originally posted by misterbug
I know that MJ is not an actual child. He is a physical adult. But an emotional child. As you said, he lives in a "dream world of his own creation" and is "used to controlling everything and everybody." It sounds like you are describing a spoiled brat who daydreams and has imaginary friends.

He is spoiled. I don't see how anyone can not agree with that when you watch his "shopping spree" in Las Vegas. To me, spoiled means getting what you want, when you want it, all the time. That is Michael Jackson. For example, he showed up late to his court appearance simply because he didn't give a darn whether or not he was there on time. You can't use the excuse, "but I am Michael Jackson" as a way to get out of those types of responsibilities.

[misterbug]

Well, just becuase the court uses it doesn't mean it is correct. We all remember Johnny Cochran's logic: "If it does not fit, you must acquit."

He is spoiled. I don't see how anyone can not agree with that when you watch his "shopping spree" in Las Vegas. To me, spoiled means getting what you want, when you want it, all the time. That is Michael Jackson. For example, he showed up late to his court appearance simply because he didn't give a darn whether or not he was there on time. You can't use the excuse, "but I am Michael Jackson" as a way to get out of those types of responsibilities.

Precisely! I was going to use the shopping spree example myself. Such acts only go to prove he is an emotional child. MJ really IS a spoiled child, emotionally--something he never got to be when he was a physical child. The same goes for him jumping on top of his SUV after the first hearing. That seems like the act of an innocent child to me. If MJ really was guilty, I highly doubt he would be jumping all over the place with glee. So, I do agree that MJ wants to be and can afford to be a spoiled kid.

Am I the lone MJ supporter on the Ledge? I thought there was at least one other.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I for one will hold judgement until I hear the facts and evidence from the trial. I know better than to believe everything the media says, as well as everything a celebrity says.

If he is found guilty I will trust that and that will be the end of it for me, but until then I will continue to listen to and enjoy his music...and if he is found innocent I will continue to listen to his music.

I have mixed feelings about this whole thing..I think Stevie usually keeps her comments to herself about these sensitive subjects like this, and subjects like the war in Iraq..and politics..

Chris

[tommer]

just a thought:

imagine MJ in Oz, how many episodes could he survive?

[DrummerDeanna]

I have not stated that I think Michael is guilty or anything, I, like some others, am waiting to hear more of what comes out of this whole ordeal, right now the media is filled with one side, and I am aware of that since I work in the media business.

What I do think, however, is that the man IS sick, he has problems and has lied about dumb things in the past. No, they may be simple little lies but once someone lies to me all trust is gone and I do think that is someone is willing to lie about little things then lies about big things are next. And perhaps MJ doesn't think he is lying (if he is) Many sick minds delude themselves so much that what may be a lie, to them is pure truth.

Now the court system is supposed to have an innocent until proven guilty stance, though it often times seems more like guilty until proven innocent. Either way, he's in this mess yet again and there are some disturbing facts brought to light.

But whatever the outcome...all I can do is sit back and accept whatever the court system finds in this case...

[greatdarkwing]

I felt a *little* bit bad for him until the interview where he said the police roughed him up....I would buy that if it was wrapped around a Stevie shawl!

That interview is just one of MANY things that has screwed MJ. Frankly he is full of it if he says the police abused him. Perfect example was when he moved his arm up to smooth his hair...PLEASE...the man is not all there. And when you take into account his sleeping in bed with children, something just does not add up. I do not care how much of a childhood you didnt have, that is just wrong. Sociology will tell you so.

~Alex