20 years since Say You Will...

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by The Chain

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to this day I don't understand the faction of the fanbase that doesn't like the SYW version of Smile At You. That production is just immaculate.. Lindsey's guitar/arrangement, ESPECIALLY John's bass, Stevie's voice is strong here..hell even Mick's drum work which honestly can bore me sometimes.. and that outro! It's beautiful and dark, epic to my ears.

I LOVE that syw version. imo john's bass makes the song. definitely beautiful and dark.

--Lis

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

I LOVE that syw version. imo john's bass makes the song. definitely beautiful and dark.

--Lis

John's bass might be the only thing I really cherish about this album.

[aleuzzi]

I remember first hearing it and hating the absence of Christine. Stevie sounded nasal and Buckingham’s tunes seemed tuneless. But then, about a week later, I listened with new ears and felt genuine excitement for about 2/3 of the songs. What I liked most were those songs that DIDN’T sound like traditional FM. “Illume,” “Everybody Finds Out,” “Red Rover,” and “Say Goodbye” all felt new and innovative to my ears. The musicianship was strong and even a little more aggressive—something that translated on the tours. While only a few songs on SYW match my enthusiasm for the bulk of IN THE MEANTIME, I was willing to accept this essentially new band, where the bros hit harder and Stevie’s attack was less precious, more direct and accessible. It all added up to an AMERICAN band backed with two monster rhythm players.

But as good as it was, it felt a bit dry, somewhat calculated and defensive. It lacked humanity and warmth.

I never realized how central Christine was to the Mac chemistry until she wasn’t there. I also never realized how much she WAS the Mac sound until I heard ITM, and felt the bulk of it was more FM than FM—even though none of the remaining four were there.

Put another way, the BuckVie project, in which a different configuration of four FM members are present and one is absent, sounds a lot more like an actual FM record.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

I remember first hearing it and hating the absence of Christine. Stevie sounded nasal and Buckingham’s tunes seemed tuneless. But then, about a week later, I listened with new ears and felt genuine excitement for about 2/3 of the songs. What I liked most were those songs that DIDN’T sound like traditional FM. “Illume,” “Everybody Finds Out,” “Red Rover,” and “Say Goodbye” all felt new and innovative to my ears. The musicianship was strong and even a little more aggressive—something that translated on the tours. While only a few songs on SYW match my enthusiasm for the bulk of IN THE MEANTIME, I was willing to accept this essentially new band, where the bros hit harder and Stevie’s attack was less precious, more direct and accessible. It all added up to an AMERICAN band backed with two monster rhythm players.

But as good as it was, it felt a bit dry, somewhat calculated and defensive. It lacked humanity and warmth.

I never realized how central Christine was to the Mac chemistry until she wasn’t there. I also never realized how much she WAS the Mac sound until I heard ITM, and felt the bulk of it was more FM than FM—even though none of the remaining four were there.

Put another way, the BuckVie project, in which a different configuration of four FM members are present and one is absent, sounds a lot more like an actual FM record.

I agree with every word. SYW is just.... too empty. Christine really was what made it work.

WHAT would've happened if Christine had left the band in 1975, when they joined? WOULD they have had success? I'll bet they'd have had a couple of hits, then faded away. Take away SYLM,OMH,YMLF, and Don't Stop, and there's not a lot of mass appeal left, IMO.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

WHAT would've happened if Christine had left the band in 1975, when they joined? WOULD they have had success? .

We will never know how succesful they would have been, if they were. But definitely there would not have been the Rumours phenomenom. And who knows how long would that lineup have lasted.

My first thoughts coincide with you guys about Christine absence in SYW. I missed her a lot all those years. But I think that to get a complete Fleetwood Mac album, Richard Dashut's presence would have been great. And with Ken, ideal.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I agree with every word. SYW is just.... too empty. Christine really was what made it work.

WHAT would've happened if Christine had left the band in 1975, when they joined? WOULD they have had success? I'll bet they'd have had a couple of hits, then faded away. Take away SYLM,OMH,YMLF, and Don't Stop, and there's not a lot of mass appeal left, IMO.

Not to mention Hold Me, Little Lies, and Everywhere…

But it’s also the album tracks. The white album without Sugar Daddy?! Egads.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

I remember first hearing it and hating the absence of Christine. Stevie sounded nasal and Buckingham’s tunes seemed tuneless. But then, about a week later, I listened with new ears and felt genuine excitement for about 2/3 of the songs. What I liked most were those songs that DIDN’T sound like traditional FM. “Illume,” “Everybody Finds Out,” “Red Rover,” and “Say Goodbye” all felt new and innovative to my ears. The musicianship was strong and even a little more aggressive—something that translated on the tours. While only a few songs on SYW match my enthusiasm for the bulk of IN THE MEANTIME, I was willing to accept this essentially new band, where the bros hit harder and Stevie’s attack was less precious, more direct and accessible. It all added up to an AMERICAN band backed with two monster rhythm players.

But as good as it was, it felt a bit dry, somewhat calculated and defensive. It lacked humanity and warmth.

I never realized how central Christine was to the Mac chemistry until she wasn’t there. I also never realized how much she WAS the Mac sound until I heard ITM, and felt the bulk of it was more FM than FM—even though none of the remaining four were there.

Put another way, the BuckVie project, in which a different configuration of four FM members are present and one is absent, sounds a lot more like an actual FM record.

Yea, couldn't have stated this any better. Spot on, observations.

[Tusky]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

But as good as it was, it felt a bit dry, somewhat calculated and defensive. It lacked humanity and warmth.

SUCH a good post. The Dance was all about reminding us about what we loved about the band - the warmth, the chemistry, the familiar f***** up-ness and beauty. In retrospect SYW felt lacking a layer of organic creation because there wasn't. L&S never created together from the ground up. Unlike say Tango which had the L& Christine chemistry at the heart of so many of the songs. I think I spent a lot of time convincing myself I liked the album but...it had changed. I even think some of Trouble In Shangri-La has more the FMac spirit and like you said In The Meantime. Intellectually I respected and appreciated where Lindsey was coming from in his vision for the album, but it was at odds with what Stevie was bringing to the table and didn't work unlike say Tusk.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by Tusky

the L& Christine chemistry at the heart of so many of the songs.

Well, he couldn't have described it better.

Christine and I...

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Villavic

Well, he couldn't have described it better.

Christine and I...

I remember I could recite this docu. haha

[FuzzyPlum]

Also, as much as Lindsey's production skills are lauded, maybe we under-value what Richard and Ken also brought to the table. I like Lindsey solo albums but I find they too lack a bit of warmth.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I remember I could recite this docu. haha

Take me there, Ken. Take me back.

I was 31 in 1997. At that moment it seemed to me that Rumours had appeared a long time ago. Now it's 2025. Say no more.