New Interview with Lindsey about Tusk

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by David

That’s exactly how I see his mindset, Tony. The movement was a liberation movement to him, and Brian Wilson setting out on Smile was also a liberation movement. The fact that it never materialized in its time seems to have inspired Lindsey even further, not less, as if a failed project were the ultimate statement in personal musicmaking.

I have no doubt he was listening to many of the punk bands in 1977, and despite what he said, he probably borrowed bits and pieces of the music as groundwork. But Tusk doesn’t remind one musically of the 1977 Clash album, unless you’re looking for individual grunts and patches. The punk bands in 1977 were heavily political, and maybe that’s what made Lindsey decide not to rehash their sound — that, and the fact that he knew asking Fleetwood Mac do to that would have been a grotesque fiasco. The movement was (British) working class rebellion. Lindsey characterized Chrissie Hynde in 1981 as having no professional discipline, which I always thought was odd coming from him, given his admiration for musical rebellion (this was in an interview with Jim Ladd for Law and Order when they were discussing the title). That could be his epithet: spontaneous discipline.

That's another interesting feature of Tusk. The album cover could be the cover of any punk band. But the music is not punk (as you say) except those grunts and other oddities thrown in.
Besides the music, the cover was another element to be unconventional and different.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

That's another interesting feature of Tusk. The album cover could be the cover of any punk band. But the music is not punk (as you say) except those grunts and other oddities thrown in.
Besides the music, the cover was another element to be unconventional and different.

This made me asking another question. What is punk? When I read in the article Tusk is arguably the most punk record of the Seventies, I thought in punk rock, punk music. and I thought WHAT? But reading wikipedia it summarizes punk subculture, that includes a diverse and widely known array of music, ideologies, fashion, and other forms of expression, visual art, dance, literature, and film.

So I don't relate Tusk music, Tusk sound, with "punk rock" music genre, but definitely it was a different form of expression or art.

[David]

Originally Posted by Villavic

This made me asking another question. What is punk?

From the point of view of this particular article, think of punk as an attitude toward creativity — dumping commercial aspirations and letting your id fly freely without business considerations.

I’m not sure Fleetwood Mac did any of that on Tusk, not even Lindsey, so the punk characterization is pretty loose. Lindsey always wanted an audience and never said otherwise. He didn’t always get an audience, but he always wanted one. He wanted to bring the public along on his little journey. But he got screwed out of that because the pop audience always had a built-in stodge factor, thanks to mass-market radio play. Independent-minded movie makers always had the same problem in a mass-market art. The problem has always been how to take steps in a new direction but retain an audience. It took Lindsey many decades to find peace with a drastically reduced audience for his solo albums (assuming he ever found peace).

Beethoven used to write fiendish, somewhat crazy and bizarre new music in his later years, and then when they told him that the work wouldn’t be understood or appreciated, just say, “It isn’t intended for your audience, it’s for an audience in the future.”

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by David

Lindsey always wanted an audience and never said otherwise. He didn’t always get an audience, but he always wanted one. He wanted to bring the public along on his little journey. But he got screwed out of that because the pop audience always had a built-in stodge factor, thanks to mass-market radio play.

Oh, definitely. There was a palpable sense of “if I build this, they will come and love it.” He learned otherwise. Just because he was repulsed by the slick yacht rock craze of the late seventies doesn’t mean that the audience they amassed — and the radio stations that promoted their music — wanted otherwise.

FM mark ten, in large part thanks to Lindsey, Mick, and John, always brought a fiery spirit to the music, easy-on-the-ears but undergirded by forceful rhythms and piercing guitar. So they were never going to be The Captain and Tennille or Robert Dupree. And they were never aiming for slick studio polish like the session players for Toto and Steely Dan. Collectively and individually, the band members had personality. Still, Lindsey’s experiments on TUSK probably felt alienating and — possibly worse — pedantic. There are times in various interviews over the years where I got the sense he was lecturing the public on the ethics of aesthetics. But a large percentage of Mac fans didn’t come to FM to do heavy thinking. They wanted to dream (crystal visions, anyone?), relax, party, smoke pot. They wanted sex, romance, intrigue, drama. They wanted to be entertained.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

But a large percentage of Mac fans didn’t come to FM to do heavy thinking. They wanted to dream (crystal visions, anyone?), relax, party, smoke pot. They wanted sex, romance, intrigue, drama. They wanted to be entertained.

You can pick me up, you can lay me down, but don't get serious!!

LET'S JUST PLAY AROUND!!

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

You can pick me up, you can lay me down, but don't get serious!!

LET'S JUST PLAY AROUND!!

Stagecoach!!!!!!!

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Stagecoach!!!!!!!

Close that door!

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by David

From the point of view of this particular article, think of punk as an attitude toward creativity — dumping commercial aspirations and letting your id fly freely without business considerations.

I don’t know about other countries but here, in the past, long ago when my parents were young (mid century XX), listening to music was forbidden on Good Friday. However, in the late 70s when I was a kid, radios were allowed to play just classical, symphonic, instrumental music. That changed in the mid 80s, they started to play soft, vocal, pop music like Carpenters, Streisand or Air Supply, combined with rock bands but just their soft, slow songs (Dust in the Wind, Babe, Love of my Life, Drive, etc.).

Having said that intro, to keep with the (80s) tradition, I listened to all the versions of Over & Over while I was showering today. And I remembered this thread, when we talked about how “punk”, or how “different” album was Tusk. Starting the album with "O&O" was definitely a good move to deliver the message "Hey! This is not Rumours 2". But I wonder what other song would have been more suitable for that message and also a good opening track for the album. Did Lindsey consider putting the title track, or one of his other songs, as the first track, instead of a Christine's song?

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by Villavic

I don’t know about other countries but here, in the past, long ago when my parents were young (mid century XX), listening to music was forbidden on Good Friday. However, in the late 70s when I was a kid, radios were allowed to play just classical, symphonic, instrumental music. That changed in the mid 80s, they started to play soft, vocal, pop music like Carpenters, Streisand or Air Supply, combined with rock bands but just their soft, slow songs (Dust in the Wind, Babe, Love of my Life, Drive, etc.).

Having said that intro, to keep with the (80s) tradition, I listened to all the versions of Over & Over while I was showering today. And I remembered this thread, when we talked about how “punk”, or how “different” album was Tusk. Starting the album with "O&O" was definitely a good move to deliver the message "Hey! This is not Rumours 2". But I wonder what other song would have been more suitable for that message and also a good opening track for the album. Did Lindsey consider putting the title track, or one of his other songs, as the first track, instead of a Christine's song?

interesting take..I don't see Over and Over as any sort of indicator at all about what the rest of Tusk would be like... I see it as a rather familiar sort of Christine love song, chosen perhaps to not scare listeners right out of the gate with something jarring or new. That was always my take on why that was the opening track... a gentle, familiar, Christine song so I don't know that that particular song signals "this is not rumours 2..."

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

interesting take..I don't see Over and Over as any sort of indicator at all about what the rest of Tusk would be like... I see it as a rather familiar sort of Christine love song, chosen perhaps to not scare listeners right out of the gate with something jarring or new. That was always my take on why that was the opening track... a gentle, familiar, Christine song so I don't know that that particular song signals "this is not rumours 2..."

Agree O&O doesn't tell how the rest of the album would be like. But comparing it to Monday Morning or Second Hand News, I felt like they, or Lindsey, were trying to say Don't expect the same kind of album.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Villavic

Agree O&O doesn't tell how the rest of the album would be like. But comparing it to Monday Morning or Second Hand News, I felt like they, or Lindsey, were trying to say Don't expect the same kind of album.

I believe he turned the dials 180 degrees...

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Villavic

Agree O&O doesn't tell how the rest of the album would be like. But comparing it to Monday Morning or Second Hand News, I felt like they, or Lindsey, were trying to say Don't expect the same kind of album.

IMHO it sort of does. I think it fits the folksy theme fairly well. Lindsey had the quirky songs but I remember people calling Tusk "folk music."
They should of went with the ultimate fake out and Think About Me should of been the first track.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Villavic

This made me asking another question. What is punk? When I read in the article Tusk is arguably the most punk record of the Seventies, I thought in punk rock, punk music. and I thought WHAT? But reading wikipedia it summarizes punk subculture, that includes a diverse and widely known array of music, ideologies, fashion, and other forms of expression, visual art, dance, literature, and film.

So I don't relate Tusk music, Tusk sound, with "punk rock" music genre, but definitely it was a different form of expression or art.

I think that is what David was trying to express. Lindsey was inspired by punk but clearly the music is not punk except for the attitude towards the corporate commercial record companies. IMHO much of Tusk is folksy and very soft. It was totally not what the record company and the fans expected. Having said that its the album that we look back on and appreciate more and more. I think Mick said IN THAT BLOODY BOOK that Tusk was his favorite Fleetwood Mac album. However at the time the band really disliked Lindsey's plan to do so much himself. I read an interview with Chris many years ago that Chris said their fear was Lindsey leaving the band so they placated his motives.
I sometimes wonder what that band would have been like if Tusk was different. Would Mirage be different? Would they have disbanded? Did Tusk ground them? Regardless Tusk changed the band forever. It made the members hire their own manager and accountants. It made them fade from rock stations. It made them get flamed by music reviewers. It also changed their philosophy to try and be more commercial and pop radio friendly. I love Tusk but the blowback from Tusk irks me and makes me sometimes wonder what would have happened.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

I sometimes wonder what that band would have been like if Tusk was different. Would Mirage be different? Would they have disbanded? Did Tusk ground them?

I always wonder what would have happened if Tusk had been a simple album? Which of the 20 songs would have been included? What would have been the future of the band and the following albums?

[Macfan4life]

Tusk is on this list of the top 7 criminally underrated albums of all time. Bruce's Tunnel of Love is also on this list. After Born In The USA, Bruce sort of pulled a "Tusk" and went in a complete opposite direction and did not want to do another commercial style album.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainm...86a38e8a&ei=27