Fleetwood Mac on Dick Clark's *Primetime* New Year's Rockin' Eve

[Merf]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
It is important to remember the point you made: that lindsey wanted Stevie in the song.

I see your point. Thanks, Carne.

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Her stuff holds up extremely well, even when it's damn-near acapella. In fact, some of her songs are even more arresting in this context.

Have you heard the center mix of Illume? That sucker's painful.

IMO, Stevie's voice has been very limited since the late 80s, that's just a fact. She did so much damage to it back in the day. Lately, when it comes to vocals, it's hit or miss with her. TISL was pro-tooled to death and even then, although I like the album a lot, there are some atrocious vocals on it. Now for SYW. The vocal on Thrown Down (album version) is another painful thing to sit through. It's flat, droning, and has nothing special to it. The emotion seems faked and more vocals from Lindsey are desired. This vocal makes the one on Destiny Rules seem golden.

The song Say You Will is rather bland. It's a sunny pop tune with nothing unique about it. LeAnn Rimes could do it just as well as Stevie. She doesn't sing so much as talk on it and it wouldn't leave anyone with the impression that Stevie is a particularly good singer.

Sorry, but I think Stevie's granny voice rears it's ugly head once in awhile.

But I still love her.

[diamondsnake]

[i] TISL was pro-tooled to death and even then, although I like the album a lot, there are some atrocious vocals on it. [/B]

What do you mean by "pro-tooled"?

Also, what vocals on TISL are atrocious? I love her voice now. It is great and I dare say I like her c. 2000 voice better then her c. 1970 voice. Of course she doesn't have as much range, but I just can't get enough of her "rasp".

[Jen77]

Also, what vocals on TISL are atrocious? I love her voice now. It is great and I dare say I like her c. 2000 voice better then her c. 1970 voice. Of course she doesn't have as much range, but I just can't get enough of her "rasp".

I just wanted to say that I agree

Jen~*

[dissention]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
What do you mean by "pro-tooled"?

Also, what vocals on TISL are atrocious? I love her voice now. It is great and I dare say I like her c. 2000 voice better then her c. 1970 voice. Of course she doesn't have as much range, but I just can't get enough of her "rasp".

I love her newer, raspy voice better, too. It's much stronger than it was 15 years ago. Listening to the studio version of Silver Springs makes me want to stick my head in a gas oven; it's whinier than anything I've ever heard.

By saying pro-tooled, I mean "fixed." Over-produced, made to sound a lot better than it actually is, etc. It sounds to me that they did a lot of post-production work to her vocals, and the pro-tool engineers even get credit under each of the lyrics.

What vocals on TISL are bad? Parts of Candlebright, Everyday (the whole song), most of It's Only Love (sounds like it was recorded while she was still smoking a pack of Kools a day), and Too Far From Texxxxxxxaaaaaaasssssssss. The rest of the album ranges from amazing to okay.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
I love her newer, raspy voice better, too. It's much stronger than it was 15 years ago.

That statement seems to contradict what you said in your prior post about her voice now sounding flat, droning, etc., but I guess I can see how you can both love it and hate it at the same time.

Frankly, I love her voice now... pure and simple. But I guess no one would really be surprised to hear that!

You mentioned "It's Only Love" as an example of a "bad" vocal, but I guess I'm not hearing what you're hearing, because that's one of the most nuanced and gentle vocals on the entire album. She hits some very pretty notes during the course of that song.

With "Illumé," I tend to ignore comments about "droning" vocals, because in my opinion, that's all part of the framework of the song. The track starts out slow, almost like a chant, then builds in intensity... then it sort of bottoms out with that little interlude (with the treated vocals), and then builds again, reaches its crescendo, and then gently fades out with Stevie's voice sounding almost as if she's singing a lullaby ("la la-la la....").

I love the way she starts "Destiny Rules" with that really low, rumbly vocal. Haunting.
I also think "Thrown Down" has a terrific vocal, but her re-recorded vocal for the second verse of "Say You Will" is definitely better than the album vocal.

Originally posted by dissention
By saying pro-tooled, I mean "fixed." Over-produced, made to sound a lot better than it actually is, etc. It sounds to me that they did a lot of post-production work to her vocals, and the pro-tool engineers even get credit under each of the lyrics.

Underneath the lyrics, they also list the producer(s), the regular engineers, and of course the musicans and backing singers. So I don't think the Pro Tools engineer credit is indicative of anything.
In fact, six of the album's thirteen songs weren't aided by Pro Tools at all... including "Sorcerer," in which Stevie hits some rather high notes for her voice.

It would be interesting to see in exactly which capacity they were used for 'TISL.'
Stevie made mention that they didn't use Pro-Tools at all for 'Say You Will,' and in my opinion, every one of her vocals there matches, and sometimes surpasses, her vocals on 'TISL.'
Even on Lindsey's songs, like "Miranda," "Say Goodbye," and "Peacekeeper."

So if she can sound that incredible without the aid of Pro Tools, it makes me wonder if Pro Tools were in fact used for her vocals on 'TISL' at all, or if they were used in some other capacity... which is highly possible.

[rianbay1]

I agree with you Johnny. I was blown away with the vocals on TISL, especially "Sorcerer" and "It's Only Love." Those high notes are all Stevie, I'd bet on it. In fact, I remember reading an interview in which she talked about how she hit the high notes...seems like something Sheryl suggested to her on how to sing them...wish i could find the interview. Can't remember the specifics off hand.

BACK to new years eve..Don't bands who perform on there often get to do more than one song? I haven't watched it for a LONG time, but it seems like I remember bands doing two or even three songs. I could be wrong though. I was a kid last time I saw it.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

I love the soft and gentle vocal on It's Only Love! When I first heard it, I coulnd't believe she could still sing like that. And I think the Stevie vocals on Sorcerer and Candlebright are great too. What makes those songs trying to the ears sometimes is the way that Sheryl Crow is belting out her high pitched whining. The funny thing is I love Sheryl's voice normally, but IMO she needed to tone it down a few notches in those particular songs, especially when she's only singing backup.

I totally agree with the TFFT and Everyday comments though. The vocals on those are pretty bad, even though I really like the song TFFT.

[stefan]

Concerning her demos... The ones I heard are completely boring. Just her voice, a few piano chords, no suprises, no alterations one song sounding like the other... A song like Illume would be unlistenable to me in a raw form. Smile at you in demo form is ennervating. It's just like LB said- it`s very raw material she delivers. The production then makes the song projects alive. Imo songwriting is not her strongest part and the difference in quality between her solo approaches and the FM (LB) produced songs is striking. So all in all her songs are not really her songs because of the complete change and development they go through until there is the finished product. But in fact that doesn't matter to me- it's the result that counts and that I often like.
Illume is one of my faves on the entire album- I think LB's instrumentation and the sound experience on that terrific. O.K Say you will is a harmless nice boring little pop song but that's the exception on her very good contributions to the album (do I still have to say that Silver girl is not part of this considerations )
I think her voice sounds good on the album- I saw them perform live and Stevie was in a great shape and I loved her performance.
Concerning this thread's topic: It would be a shame if they performed any Rumours song there. They ought to do some new songs or stay at home (O.K. it`s prerecorded anyway)

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by stefan
. So all in all her songs are not really her songs because of the complete change and development they go through until there is the finished product.

To me a song is a meldoy and lyrics. If you really have listened to the demos then you know that those aspects really do not change. What changes is the icing and glitz on top known as production. This icing is different when you compare her FM songs to solo songs because they are different producers. I agree that Lindsey is her best producer too, but that does not diminish the basic qualities of her songs on her solo recordings. To say that she loses ownership of her songs due to production is rediculous.

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
That statement seems to contradict what you said in your prior post about her voice now sounding flat, droning, etc., but I guess I can see how you can both love it and hate it at the same time.
I love the way she starts "Destiny Rules" with that really low, rumbly vocal. Haunting.
I also think "Thrown Down" has a terrific vocal, but her re-recorded vocal for the second verse of "Say You Will" is definitely better than the album vocal.
Underneath the lyrics, they also list the producer(s), the regular engineers, and of course the musicans and backing singers. So I don't think the Pro Tools engineer credit is indicative of anything.
In fact, six of the album's thirteen songs weren't aided by Pro Tools at all... including "Sorcerer," in which Stevie hits some rather high notes for her voice.

So if she can sound that incredible without the aid of Pro Tools, it makes me wonder if Pro Tools were in fact used for her vocals on 'TISL' at all, or if they were used in some other capacity... which is highly possible.

It doesn't contradict anything. I could say that Celine Dion has a very beautiful voice, but at the same time, I could say that I don't like some of the ways she uses her voice.

I love the beginning of Destiny Rules, but the rest of the song has a lazy vocal.

I'll never be a fan of the album version of Thrown Down, mostly due to her atrocious vocal. If, like you said, they didn't use pro-tools, it's VERY evident on that sucker.

RTTG has a great vocal, but there are points in that song where her voice gives out, ESPECIALLY during the period leading up to the second chorus. It cracks big time.

Sorry, but I don't think Stevie hit those notes on Sorcerer all by herself; there was some major help in the studio. She didn't even dare to try to hit those notes in concert; people would've cringed at the sound that came from her mouth. And I think that's what must be kept in mind: she may sound good on an album, but how will she sound live in comparison? I still believe that the reason RTTG was dropped is because it's too challenging for her to do onstage. While I still love her voice with all of its flaws and eccentricities, she very limited onstage these days and I don't see how it could necessarily be much better in the studio. We all heard some of the making-of clips on the official site before the album was released and she wasn't very good in some of them...but you'll never admit that.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Dissention...what about the making of clips of songs like Thrown Down and Steal Your Heart Away? Are you s aying those weren't good either...I think you should revisit those clips possibly...

[dissention]

Originally posted by ShangriLaTroubl
Dissention...what about the making of clips of songs like Thrown Down and Steal Your Heart Away? Are you s aying those weren't good either...I think you should revisit those clips possibly...

I think you should revisit my post; I said some of them.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
It doesn't contradict anything. I could say that Celine Dion has a very beautiful voice, but at the same time, I could say that I don't like some of the ways she uses her voice.

I love the beginning of Destiny Rules, but the rest of the song has a lazy vocal.

I'll never be a fan of the album version of Thrown Down, mostly due to her atrocious vocal. If, like you said, they didn't use pro-tools, it's VERY evident on that sucker.

RTTG has a great vocal, but there are points in that song where her voice gives out, ESPECIALLY during the period leading up to the second chorus. It cracks big time.

Sorry, but I don't think Stevie hit those notes on Sorcerer all by herself; there was some major help in the studio. She didn't even dare to try to hit those notes in concert; people would've cringed at the sound that came from her mouth. And I think that's what must be kept in mind: she may sound good on an album, but how will she sound live in comparison? I still believe that the reason RTTG was dropped is because it's too challenging for her to do onstage. While I still love her voice with all of its flaws and eccentricities, she very limited onstage these days and I don't see how it could necessarily be much better in the studio. We all heard some of the making-of clips on the official site before the album was released and she wasn't very good in some of them...but you'll never admit that.

If I found myself cringing while listening to something, I'd absolutely admit that, but it's simply not the case.
I watched every one of those making-of clips, and I was sitting here nodding my head, with a smile on my face, and thinking, "Hot damn, she sounds great!"

Regarding the "voice crack" you hear on the second verse of "Running Through The Garden"... do you really think that, if it was not intentional, or at least welcomed, Stevie wouldn't have insisted on recording it again??
If you're recording an album and your voice cracked while singing one of the songs, wouldn't you insist on recording it again, given the potential for millions of people to hear it?

Now regarding "Sorcerer"... if Pro Tools weren't used on "Sorcerer" (and that is one of the songs for which a Pro Tools engineer is not listed), then what kind of "major" studio aid would have helped Stevie hit those notes? And what would be the point of faking high-notes, when she could have just sung them in her normal range and no one would have ever questioned it?

Of course she shied away from them on stage... they're not in her comfortable range. And these days she's not about to risk singing notes on stage that she has to work to hit, for fear that some nights she won't acheive them, and she'll be back to the days of receiving bad reviews for her voice.
But that's not saying she CAN'T hit them, or didn't hit them in a studio environment.

I also still have a hard time figuring out how anyone could find the vocal on "Thrown Down" to be "atrocious."
Compared to what?
If we're comparing the album versions and the "Wall of Sound" versions, her voice on the latter is more nasally, and she's singing deeper than she is on the former. Seems to me that most people... if choosing a preference... would pick the album version as the "better" vocal.

There are times when Stevie's voice will be nasally, times when it will be deep and rumbly, times when it will be raspy or gravelly, times when it will quaver, etc.... because all of those things are essential shadings to the overall sound of her voice.

I wonder if fans of artists such as Marianne Faithful and Bob Dylan have such dissective discussions about their voices, or if they just appreciate them for the things that make those voices unique.

I know I personally get a whole hell of a lot more enjoyment out of music by not being cynical or sceptical.
Though I am a realist, and I know full well that Stevie doesn't have a textbook perfect voice, or a voice that will appeal to everyone.

But for me, it's perfect in all of its imperfections... "and nothing else matters."

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by stefan
Concerning her demos... The ones I heard are completely boring. Just her voice, a few piano chords, no suprises, no alterations one song sounding like the other... A song like Illume would be unlistenable to me in a raw form. Smile at you in demo form is ennervating. It's just like LB said- it`s very raw material she delivers. The production then makes the song projects alive. Imo songwriting is not her strongest part and the difference in quality between her solo approaches and the FM (LB) produced songs is striking. So all in all her songs are not really her songs because of the complete change and development they go through until there is the finished product.

Stefan, I'm sorry, but I think you're giving Lindsey and other producers WAY too much credit for Stevie's songs.

The meat and potatoes of the songs... the lyrics and melody... are all hers.
Everything else is gravy.

Producers take her "little skeleton songs" (as she has referred to them), and they flesh them out. But they certainly don't create them, like they're playing Dr. Frankenstein or something.

I readily admit that I'm not ga-ga for every one of her demos... she can sometimes ramble or meander as she's writing... but I see a great deal of potential in most of them.
And you have to figure, in many cases we're listening to Stevie actually writing the song, in "real time"... so of course, things will eventually get re-worked or discarded as the song takes shape.

Lindsey, Jimmy Iovine, and others, deserve credit for polishing her rough gems into something even better... but they most definitely do not deserve all the credit for the appeal of her songs.