New Mick interview with Alec Baldwin

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I don’t know that Mick was aware it was Lindsey singing or that he wrote songs. Per Olsen, he wanted “the guitarist from that band.” So, Mick may have been clueless to what Lindsey’s role in that was beyond the guitar solo.

And, no, the fact he wasn’t asked by himself isn’t a red herring. It’s actually a relevant point if people are trying to paint him as a loyal, noble partner for demanding she be included when he was never in a position where he had to make the demand.

He was never put in a position to make the demand because people around him knew him well enough to know that if asked he WOULD do so. So they saved Mick the trouble by forewarning him... allowing Mick to consider whether he wanted Lindsey bad enough that he would take Stevie in order to get him. Clearly Mick decided he did want LB that much, and thus put through an offer to Lindsey designed to tip the balance towards Lindsey answering 'yes' ie, your girlfriend can come too.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

He was never put in a position to make the demand because people around him knew him well enough to know that if asked he WOULD do so. So they saved Mick the trouble by forewarning him... allowing Mick to consider whether he wanted Lindsey bad enough that he would take Stevie in order to get him. Clearly Mick decided he did want LB that much, and thus put through an offer to Lindsey designed to tip the balance towards Lindsey answering 'yes' ie, your girlfriend can come too.

Stevie, Lindsey, and Mick (not vocally) all participated in a retelling of the story on the Rumours 35 Tour where Lindsey said Mick called him and asked him to join. Lindsey said "If you take me, you've got to take my girlfriend too."

Stevie would do a happy dance on stage. Now I have no idea if Mick was ever able to hear any of this on stage while sitting at the cocktail kit

But now that story seems to be a fairytale!

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Stevie, Lindsey, and Mick (not vocally) all participated in a retelling of the story on the Rumours 35 Tour where Lindsey said Mick called him and asked him to join. Lindsey said "If you take me, you've got to take my girlfriend too."

Stevie would do a happy dance on stage. Now I have no idea if Mick was ever able to hear any of this on stage while sitting at the cocktail kit

But now that story seems to be a fairytale!

They do that with a lot of stories. They’re also bad about leaving out key details if it means a more romanticized version of the story. Like, when Mick met Billy in 1981 at a Dick Clark anniversary taping, Mick neglects to mention that Billy’s drummer was Ian Wallace, Jenny Boyd’s second husband.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

He was never put in a position to make the demand because people around him knew him well enough to know that if asked he WOULD do so. So they saved Mick the trouble by forewarning him... allowing Mick to consider whether he wanted Lindsey bad enough that he would take Stevie in order to get him. Clearly Mick decided he did want LB that much, and thus put through an offer to Lindsey designed to tip the balance towards Lindsey answering 'yes' ie, your girlfriend can come too.

Keith Olsen didn’t say it so Lindsey wouldn’t have to, he said it because that was the reality of the situation.

Give me one realistic scenario where Lindsey and Stevie were still a couple and he joined the band without her. If they hadn’t been together, Lindsey would have turned the band down because he didn’t want to be in Fleetwood Mac. But, Lindsey and Stevie were a couple and a musical partnership. Fleetwood Mac would have listened to the Buckingham Nicks album, become more aware of what Lindsey had been doing prior to joining, heard her songwriting and their harmonies, heard the potential she and Lindsey had together, all with her hanging around them in the studio with a producer who championed the two of them in the first place. There was never Homer’s “f**k that b***h” fantasy scenario, to be clear.

So this canonization of someone for doing something he didn’t do and really didn’t need to do is ridiculous. The only one who actually went out on a limb was Mick Fleetwood.


(With apologies to Sue.)

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Keith Olsen didn’t say it so Lindsey wouldn’t have to, he said it because that was the reality of the situation.

Give me one realistic scenario where Lindsey and Stevie were still a couple and he joined the band without her. If they hadn’t been together, Lindsey would have turned the band down because he didn’t want to be in Fleetwood Mac. But, Lindsey and Stevie were a couple and a musical partnership. Fleetwood Mac would have listened to the Buckingham Nicks album, become more aware of what Lindsey had been doing prior to joining, heard her songwriting and their harmonies, heard the potential she and Lindsey had together, all with her hanging around them in the studio with a producer who championed the two of them in the first place. There was never Homer’s “f**k that b***h” fantasy scenario, to be clear.

So this canonization of someone for doing something he didn’t do and really didn’t need to do is ridiculous. The only one who actually went out on a limb was Mick Fleetwood.


(With apologies to Sue.)

This is torture.

That is all.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

This is torture.

That is all.

Deliberately so.

"Tortured logic is the name we use for an argument that is very complex, and takes the listener on a long trip with many twists and turns, and requires much concentration to arrive at a conclusion mostly due to its complexity."

"Tortured logic is when you have no true support for your argument, so you stretch the limits of logic to an extreme to do so."

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Deliberately so.

"Tortured logic is the name we use for an argument that is very complex, and takes the listener on a long trip with many twists and turns, and requires much concentration to arrive at a conclusion mostly due to its complexity."

"Tortured logic is when you have no true support for your argument, so you stretch the limits of logic to an extreme to do so."

The only thing torturous is grown ass adults believing in something about as true as the Easter Bunny. You’re admiring the field of mushrooms and forgetting the pile of cow dung they’re growing out of. Lindsey saying he wouldn’t join without Stevie is every bit the load of crap as the big “Landslide” kiss on The Dance. It’s all BS. A staged, calculated, romanticized/fictionalized version of what really happened/who they are.

There was never a scenario where Lindsey joins Fleetwood Mac without Stevie while he and Stevie were still a couple that doesn’t end with her still joining the band. It was just as inevitable at that point as Christine joining Fleetwood Mac after Peter left.

Remember, we’re talking about the same woman who, at the height of her popularity and at the peak of her career, flew all over the world trying to get Tom Petty to put her in the Heartbreakers. If she was willing to put on that kind of pathetic display when she was one of the biggest rockstars in the world, can you imagine the scene she would have made at Sound City trying to get in a band that was doing everything she wanted to be doing that her boyfriend/musical partner with whom she’d made an album had just joined without her? At a minimum, she would have started cleaning John Mayall’s house in Laurel Canyon just for a character reference.

But, it likely wouldn’t have gotten to that point. It’s not like the band didn’t have a say in it, too. Listen to all of the albums from KH to HAHTF. Think of “Station Man,” “Morning Rain,” “Spare Me A Little,” “Remember Me,” “Dissatisfied,” “Believe Me,” “Just Crazy Love,” “Why,” “Heroes Are Hard To Find,” and “Come A Little Bit Closer.” What do you think the first thing Christine would have thought when she heard Buckingham Nicks?

Because, hate to break it to you, it wasn’t his guitar playing. She’d already played with Peter Green and Danny Kirwan. Lindsey’s a great guitarist, but he’s not at that level as a lead guitarist (which is why he didn’t want to join). No, the game changer for Christine was the harmonies. Plural.

Same for John, BTW.

So, let’s just dispel this glorified fan fiction that St. Lindsey, Lord of the Overdubs, high upon his horse, demanded that Stevie be included once and for all. She would have been in the band eventually anyway. It was really less Lindsey wouldn’t join without Stevie as it was you buy one, you buy both because that’s just how the Buckingham Nicks equation was.

[johnnystorms]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

The only thing torturous is grown ass adults believing in something about as true as the Easter Bunny. You’re admiring the field of mushrooms and forgetting the pile of cow dung they’re growing out of. Lindsey saying he wouldn’t join without Stevie is every bit the load of crap as the big “Landslide” kiss on The Dance. It’s all BS. A staged, calculated, romanticized/fictionalized version of what really happened/who they are.

There was never a scenario where Lindsey joins Fleetwood Mac without Stevie while he and Stevie were still a couple that doesn’t end with her still joining the band. It was just as inevitable at that point as Christine joining Fleetwood Mac after Peter left.

Remember, we’re talking about the same woman who, at the height of her popularity and at the peak of her career, flew all over the world trying to get Tom Petty to put her in the Heartbreakers. If she was willing to put on that kind of pathetic display when she was one of the biggest rockstars in the world, can you imagine the scene she would have made at Sound City trying to get in a band that was doing everything she wanted to be doing that her boyfriend/musical partner with whom she’d made an album had just joined without her? At a minimum, she would have started cleaning John Mayall’s house in Laurel Canyon just for a character reference.

But, it likely wouldn’t have gotten to that point. It’s not like the band didn’t have a say in it, too. Listen to all of the albums from KH to HAHTF. Think of “Station Man,” “Morning Rain,” “Spare Me A Little,” “Remember Me,” “Dissatisfied,” “Believe Me,” “Just Crazy Love,” “Why,” “Heroes Are Hard To Find,” and “Come A Little Bit Closer.” What do you think the first thing Christine would have thought when she heard Buckingham Nicks?

Because, hate to break it to you, it wasn’t his guitar playing. She’d already played with Peter Green and Danny Kirwan. Lindsey’s a great guitarist, but he’s not at that level as a lead guitarist (which is why he didn’t want to join). No, the game changer for Christine was the harmonies. Plural.

Same for John, BTW.

So, let’s just dispel this glorified fan fiction that St. Lindsey, Lord of the Overdubs, high upon his horse, demanded that Stevie be included once and for all. She would have been in the band eventually anyway. It was really less Lindsey wouldn’t join without Stevie as it was you buy one, you buy both because that’s just how the Buckingham Nicks equation was.

Do you really believe that Stevie 'flew all around the world' trying to become a Heartbreaker? Or is it more likely that is merely a way of her expressing her admiration for the band?

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by johnnystorms

Do you really believe that Stevie 'flew all around the world' trying to become a Heartbreaker? Or is it more likely that is merely a way of her expressing her admiration for the band?

I think I read that on a Petty/Campbell forum somewhere, not from a Mac/Stevie forum.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

So, let’s just dispel this glorified fan fiction that St. Lindsey, Lord of the Overdubs, high upon his horse, demanded that Stevie be included once and for all.

What I would just say here is that it's not fan fiction but Mick and Lindsey manufactured fiction. Stevie went along with it as well. 1990 writing is one thing but Mick had different writing in the 2014 book and a different story again in this Baldwin interview...2 years after he fired Lindsey.
Either it's supreme memory loss or romanticization because most people have never heard of Keith Olsen.

Lindsey was nominated ad Patron Saint of Overdubs by Caillat in the Les Paul Award speech

[David]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

There was never a scenario where Lindsey joins Fleetwood Mac without Stevie while he and Stevie were still a couple that doesnÂ’t end with her still joining the band.

I don't know why you're insisting so vehemently on that while rejecting any other scenario as an Easter Bunny scenario. Between 1971 and 1975, Lindsey and Stevie weren't quite as tied at the hip as you imagine. He had done session work without Stevie and he had been on tour with an outfit without Stevie (she later said that he left her in Aspen at the time). For her part, in either 1972 or 1973, she went back up to the Bay Area without Lindsey, and in fact fell in love with someone else, seriously considering staying with this dude and to hell with Buckingham Nicks (and wrote the song "Destiny" about the little interlude). Stevie told Denny Somach in 1980 that she and Lindsey were breaking up already even before they decided to join Mac. So the perfectly plausible scenario is that Lindsey might have decided to take the band's offer to join, even temporarily, just to make some money. You can reject the scenario out of hand, but it's perfectly plausible. He of course still wanted the Buckingham Nicks thing to work, but had already demonstrated that he'd take a time-bounded job to tide him over. Stevie has indicated many times that, certainly by late 1974, she was sick of trying to push the Buckingham Nicks project (which for her meant holding down a crappy day job). She always gave me the sense that, by late 1974, she thought the project was a failure and should be abandoned (but she had nothing else to do except go home to mom and dad).

Because, hate to break it to you, it wasnÂ’t his guitar playing.

That flies in the face of everything Mick has ever said about hearing all the guitar work on the BN album.

SheÂ’d already played with Peter Green and Danny Kirwan. LindseyÂ’s a great guitarist, but heÂ’s not at that level as a lead guitarist (which is why he didnÂ’t want to join).

Well, of course LB, especially at that point, was no Peter Green -- as a guitarist OR a songwriter. But I doubt the Green legacy was driving the band's decisions during those chaotic years. Green was long gone, as was Kirwan. Welch, Weston, and Walker, and all their respective strengths and weaknesses, were undoubtedly much fresher in the minds of the McVies and Fleetwood. When Welch finally split, the band was nothing but a rhythm section and a singer-songwriter who preferred hanging back musically. Fleetwood Mac could have gone no further without hiring someone.

No, the game changer for Christine was the harmonies. Plural.

Oh, now you are completely making that up out of thin air, or at least out of your own conjecture. Christine has NEVER said that she wanted Buckingham Nicks in the band BECAUSE of their harmonies on the BN album. For all you know, she never even listened to the BN album. She has only said that when Buckingham Nicks added live harmonies to HER songs in rehearsal, she loved it. By that time, they were already in the band. There is no evidence anywhere that she wanted anything but a lead guitarist.

Same for John, BTW.

If you have any reliable evidence that John listened to the BN album BEFORE those two joined his band, spill it.

So, letÂ’s just dispel this glorified fan fiction that St. Lindsey, Lord of the Overdubs, high upon his horse, demanded that Stevie be included once and for all. She would have been in the band eventually anyway. It was really less Lindsey wouldnÂ’t join without Stevie as it was you buy one, you buy both because thatÂ’s just how the Buckingham Nicks equation was.

You contradict yourself in your fanatical craze to push your own glorified fiction. The scenario of "You buy one, you get both" -- which you say you accept -- probably came from Lindsey (or, by extension, from Keith).

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by David

If you have any reliable evidence that John listened to the BN album BEFORE those two joined his band, spill it.

You contradict yourself in your fanatical craze to push your own glorified fiction.


The scenario of "You buy one, you get both" -- which you say you accept -- probably came from Lindsey (or, by extension, from Keith).

I'd wager big time that he had NO CLUE who they were.

You do have a way with words, David.

Except they still ended up paying for both. In the end, Lindsey really paid.
----------------------------
I hope everything is okay between us, David. I noticed that you unfriended me on Facebook. I hope I did nothing to offend you. How long have we known each other online? 25 years or so...

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by David

Between 1971 and 1975, Lindsey and Stevie weren't quite as tied at the hip as you imagine...

So the perfectly plausible scenario is that Lindsey might have decided to take the band's offer to join, even temporarily, just to make some money. You can reject the scenario out of hand, but it's perfectly plausible.

Lindsey was beyond apprehensive about joining Fleetwood Mac and really didn’t want to join the band. Read what Keith Olsen has said. Read what Stevie Nicks has said. Read what Waddy Wachtel has said. Furthermore, Lindsey didn’t enjoy being in the band once he joined. He was moody and could be outright acrimonious towards them. He resented everything he had been working on with Buckingham Nicks getting lost within Fleetwood Mac. Lindsey even had to get a pep talk from Bob Welch of all people when they were making that first album. So, no, I don’t see Lindsey taking their offer on his own.

That flies in the face of everything Mick has ever said about hearing all the guitar work on the BN album.

Except, I was talking about Christine’s hypothetical reaction to hearing the album if the band had somehow hired Lindsey without Stevie. Lindsey’s playing was good, but not something that would have caught her attention. Not after having played with Green and Kirwan. However, the harmonies would have caught her attention at some point.

When they went through “Say You Love Me” for the first time, that changed everything for Christine, and even John. They realized they had something special.

Well, of course LB, especially at that point, was no Peter Green -- as a guitarist OR a songwriter... When Welch finally split, the band was nothing but a rhythm section and a singer-songwriter who preferred hanging back musically. Fleetwood Mac could have gone no further without hiring someone.

This strengthens the case that they would have added Stevie after becoming aware of what Lindsey was coming from. They needed songwriting. Bob Welch had 2/3 of the last two albums.

Green was long gone, as was Kirwan. Welch, Weston, and Walker, and all their respective strengths and weaknesses, were undoubtedly much fresher in the minds of the McVies and Fleetwood.

Peter Green is always fresh in the mind of Mick Fleetwood.

Christine has NEVER said that she wanted Buckingham Nicks in the band BECAUSE of their harmonies on the BN album.

And, I never said she did. I was saying that, at some point after Lindsey hypothetically joined without Stevie, Christine would have listened to the album and that the harmonies, not the guitar playing, would have caught her attention. She was a songwriter who heavily used harmonies, so obviously she would have heard the potential.

You contradict yourself in your fanatical craze to push your own glorified fiction. The scenario of "You buy one, you get both" -- which you say you accept -- probably came from Lindsey (or, by extension, from Keith).

Not at all. It was just the reality. Have you ever been around a band where one of the guys has a girlfriend with ambitious musical aspirations? In this case, that girlfriend made an album with the band’s new guitarist, there’s a woman in the band he joined, and the two groups were stylistically similar. Do you really believe Stevie wouldn’t have been a factor if Lindsey had joined without her? She would have been hanging around the studio and traveling with them on tour…There was no getting just Lindsey.

[elle]

Originally Posted by David

I don't know why you're insisting so vehemently on that while rejecting any other scenario as an Easter Bunny scenario. Between 1971 and 1975, Lindsey and Stevie weren't quite as tied at the hip as you imagine. He had done session work without Stevie and he had been on tour with an outfit without Stevie (she later said that he left her in Aspen at the time). For her part, in either 1972 or 1973, she went back up to the Bay Area without Lindsey, and in fact fell in love with someone else, seriously considering staying with this dude and to hell with Buckingham Nicks (and wrote the song "Destiny" about the little interlude). Stevie told Denny Somach in 1980 that she and Lindsey were breaking up already even before they decided to join Mac. So the perfectly plausible scenario is that Lindsey might have decided to take the band's offer to join, even temporarily, just to make some money. You can reject the scenario out of hand, but it's perfectly plausible.

yup, you'd have to imagine FM offer was better than Everly Brothers. and maybe if he joined alone, they would have had one final breakup at the time, which would be healthier for both of them long run, while most probably neither of them would be as successful as they ended up being.

Mick told the story many times which agreed with the stage / Lindsey's usual version, including apparently in this most recent interview. and he told a different version once.

Stevie told Lindsey's / stage version many times over decades, except recently since she forced Lindsey outta FM, when she started all of the sudden saying that Mick asked her and Lindsey.

so i guess everyone can pick and chose a version they like and be happy in their little bubble.

while i'm happy for Lindsey that he and Mick seemed to have rekindled their decades long friendship, i really am not crazy about Lindsey once again re-hooking with the name Fleetwood. he's been finally starting to build a separate cred away from anything Fleetwood, as Lindsey Buckingham - Caution / The Killers is a great step in that direction and he should continue in that vein in a little time he has left, if he wants to cement his own legacy apart form the already cemented FM legacy he has.

[michelej1]

It’s true. Christine doesn’t mention their voices or getting gooseflesh until they are working on the white album and they spontaneously began singing on her song.