Brett Tuggle Dishes the details to Rolling Stone

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Newzchspy

Lindsey's lawsuit says it all and does so very well. Let's be clear that Fleetwood Mac is not the same without !Lindsey. No disrespect to Neil and Mike, but they are NOT Lindsey.

Judging by the original setlist, I think that was kind of the point.

This one quote from Variety sums it up for me: " After Buckingham’s departure from Fleetwood Mac in 1987, the Band’s fortunes and popularity declined precipitously.” The lawsuit is not a big fan of the Dave Mason/Billy Burnette/Bekka Bramlett years.".

Yeah, and OOTC caught the world’s attention, what, peaking at #128 and all...

Funny how the article mentions one band mate willing to replace an ill John McVie in 2015 with a session player. I can only think of one person willing to do that, but he beats to an entirely different drum. For him, it's always been about the $$, nothing more or less.

Just for a leg. It wouldn’t have been a permanent thing. I doubt McVie would have had an issue. Remember who was coming back?

The morning his cancer was announced began with a video of the band leaving the hotel for the venue the night before. Christine (still NOT in the band, and not performing) was the last one to leave. It seemed that her return was imminent (and it was). Do you think Christine would accept a different bassist full time if John was healthy enough???

Really???

She even admits, even now, that when the band is not touring that each member has very little communication with the other, if at all.

So? Hell, I rarely contact friends or family these days. Not because I don’t care, but because I don’t have anything going on worthy of a call because of this effing pandemic. Plus, Neil, Mike, and Mick have other projects they’re focusing on, too.

[Newzchspy]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

So? Hell, I rarely contact friends or family these days. Not because I don’t care, but because I don’t have anything going on worthy of a call because of this effing pandemic. Plus, Neil, Mike, and Mick have other projects they’re focusing on, too.

You entirely missed the point. There are many on here who believe in the divine reconciliation of Stevie and Lindsey and have for years. I've always been an outlier, believing that they essentially despise one another. Seems that from what Stevie has said recently and Lindsey's lawsuit two years ago I was correct. Hell hasn't frozen over, but I don't ever see those two on the stage together again. Stevie f'd up a perfectly good business relationship.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Newzchspy

You entirely missed the point. There are many on here who believe in the divine reconciliation of Stevie and Lindsey and have for years. I've always been an outlier, believing that they essentially despise one another. Seems that from what Stevie has said recently and Lindsey's lawsuit two years ago I was correct. Hell hasn't frozen over, but I don't ever see those two on the stage together again. Stevie f'd up a perfectly good business relationship.

Oh, I agree. I gagged at “Landslide” in 1997 and thought it was all an act. Aside from Christine being my favorite Fleetwood Mac singer/songwriter, I was thrilled with her return because I couldn’t deal with the Stevie/Lindsey drama anymore.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Oh, I agree. I gagged at “Landslide” in 1997 and thought it was all an act. Aside from Christine being my favorite Fleetwood Mac singer/songwriter, I was thrilled with her return because I couldn’t deal with the Stevie/Lindsey drama anymore.

It was becoming so dull and stale. But, they had new fans that really thought it was real. A lot of new fans came on board at this time and they liked the soap opera more than anything else.

I think FM knocked Puff Daddy out of the #1 slot with The Dance.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Newzchspy

You entirely missed the point. There are many on here who believe in the divine reconciliation of Stevie and Lindsey and have for years. I've always been an outlier, believing that they essentially despise one another. Seems that from what Stevie has said recently and Lindsey's lawsuit two years ago I was correct. Hell hasn't frozen over, but I don't ever see those two on the stage together again. Stevie f'd up a perfectly good business relationship.

He should never go back. It would be so STUPID now if they did all the hand holding, etc. It was stupid before!
I'll never understand HOW he could want to stand on stage with her again. Would his tail be completely tucked into his ass crack, or would he just go ahead and get it cut off? I mean SERIOUSLY???
She publicly HUMILIATED him, and he'd go back and stand there with her?

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Yeah, and OOTC caught the world’s attention, what, peaking at #128 and all...

Really a bitter comment. It's mean to any artist that doesn't make tons of money off album sales.

You sound like you think Lindsey is a nobody. Why did NIN have him at the Grammys? Dave Grohl called Stevie "Lindsey Buckingham's girl."

Behind the Mask Tour visited the Trump Taj 5,000 seat ballroom. When Lindsey came back, they played either the 14,000 seat Boardwalk Hall or the 12,000 seat open field at Borgata.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Really a bitter comment. It's mean to any artist that doesn't make tons of money off album sales.

Lindsey went out of his way to highlight Fleetwood Mac’s lack of success without him in the lawsuit. I’m showing that it works both ways.

Lindsey’s six solo albums sold less than the six albums Fleetwood Mac recorded prior to his involvement, and that’s after Rumours and after he had three Top Ten songs. His highest charting solo album, L&O, peaked at #32 while HAHTF peaked at #34 and BTM #18. Meanwhile, Bella Donna outsold Tusk and Mirage. Mick could legitimately say that Lindsey never had a Top Ten hit without him.

Behind the Mask Tour visited the Trump Taj 5,000 seat ballroom. When Lindsey came back, they played either the 14,000 seat Boardwalk Hall or the 12,000 seat open field at Borgata.

And, in 2017, LBCM was playing 4,000 seat amphitheaters while Stevie was packing 20,000 seat arenas.

[jmn3]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Lindsey went out of his to highlight Fleetwood Mac’s lack of success without him in the lawsuit. I’m showing that it works both ways.

Lindsey’s six solo albums sold less than the six albums Fleetwood Mac recorded prior to his involvement, and that’s after Rumours and after he had three Top Ten songs. His highest charting solo album, L&O, peaked at #32 while HAHTF peaked at #34 and BTM #18. Meanwhile, Bella Donna outsold Tusk and Mirage. Mick could legitimately say that Lindsey never had a Top Ten hit without him.


And, in 2017, LBCM was playing 4,000 seat amphitheaters while Stevie was packing 20,000 seat arenas.

Lindsey's contributions to Fleetwood Mac and the impact upon the band's success has nothing to do with his solo career. The fact is that the band lacked the same degree of success during the years he wasn't in it. The members of Fleetwood Mac were not removed from Lindsey's solo orbit so the comparison is ridiculous.

And for the love of God, Stevie only "sold out" 20k seats in 2017 because of The Pretenders. She was never selling out arenas on her own in 2017.

Your ability to contort every single piece of data to fit some ridiculous anti-Lindsey, pro-Stevie position is really uncanny.

This fivesome is better together. They were in 1975....1982...1997...2014...you name the year, when these five get together, they make each other better.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Mick could legitimately say that Lindsey never had a Top Ten hit without him.


And, in 2017, LBCM was playing 4,000 seat amphitheaters while Stevie was packing 20,000 seat arenas.

Convenient for you to leave out the points about Dave Grohl and NIN. As if one's legacy and musical contributions don't mean anything. It's just all about how high a record charts. Did Desperado chart high?

With your thinking, it can be said that Holiday Road wasn't a Top Ten Hit yet it could be more well known that Edge, Stand Back, Talk to Me, or Stop Draggin'.
Countless TV commercials and inclusion in a classic film.

You should take a look at the Billboard attendance for Stevie's 24 Tour. Sure, it's great she made a lot of money in ticket sales and sold out The Forum and MSG which Lindsey could not do on his own happily for you.
You'll notice a lot of 7k and 8k numbers in the data. They're not Streisand or Cher numbers. When she didn't have the Pretenders, she played small cities like Green Bay, Youngstown, and St. Charles.


Lindsey also played solo the Sands which Stevie played on the 24k Tour. It's a theater.

When was the last time you saw Stevie solo? I went to plenty of Stevie shows in the 2000s where they were not even close to sold out. Two of them my friends walked into the theater when the show was still going on without tickets.

You don't post with impartiality. Your displeasure for Lindsey is as striking as coyote piss.

[Nicks Fan]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Convenient for you to leave out the points about Dave Grohl and NIN. As if one's legacy and musical contributions don't mean anything. It's just all about how high a record charts. Did Desperado chart high?

With your thinking, it can be said that Holiday Road wasn't a Top Ten Hit yet it could be more well known that Edge, Stand Back, Talk to Me, or Stop Draggin'.
Countless TV commercials and inclusion in a classic film.

You should take a look at the Billboard attendance for Stevie's 24 Tour. Sure, it's great she made a lot of money in ticket sales and sold out The Forum and MSG which Lindsey could not do on his own happily for you.
You'll notice a lot of 7k and 8k numbers in the data. They're not Streisand or Cher numbers. When she didn't have the Pretenders, she played small cities like Green Bay, Youngstown, and St. Charles.


Lindsey also played solo the Sands which Stevie played on the 24k Tour. It's a theater.

When was the last time you saw Stevie solo? I went to plenty of Stevie shows in the 2000s where they were not even close to sold out. Two of them my friends walked into the theater when the show was still going on without tickets.

You don't post with impartiality. Your displeasure for Lindsey is as striking as coyote piss.

I saw Melissa Etheridge at the sands in 2012 and I recall correctly it seats 2500.

Plus remember on 2011-2012 tour she played the Fox theatre in Detroit, the Seneca Falls casino in Niagara Falls and one of the casinos in either Norman or Thackerville OK.

I would like to see Stevie book an arena tour with no opener and we can see how many tickets she sells. I don’t think she would fill up a 20,000 seat arena like Tina did in 2008 on her last tour.

Lindsey’s solo career wasn’t red hot in the 90’s but his comments were correct re FM. They had a top 40 album and 1 top 40 single but they were not exactly selling millions of records and while they did play some big venues they did play some small venues and or smaller markets like Bethlehem PA at Stabler Arena.

As for the last tour it did well but nothing compared to some of their previous tours and if they go out on the road again people likely wouldn’t care because they saw this lineup once and with no new product likely not much interest.

I really hope though that Lindsey doesn’t go back. I know why he wants to but at the same time the band really screwed him and don’t deserve him back.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by Nicks Fan

Plus remember on 2011-2012 tour she played the Fox theatre in Detroit, the Seneca Falls casino in Niagara Falls and one of the casinos in either Norman or Thackerville OK.

There was also a random amphitheater in St Augustine Florida and maybe one at a zoo in Toledo on the IYD. And the Mahaffey Theater in Florida.

But it was Stevie's personal choice to play there, it wasn't booked on financial projections because if that was done, she would've done a ten show run at Dolphin Stadium, where she played in 2007... in the parking lot.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

You don't post with impartiality. Your displeasure for Lindsey is as striking as coyote piss.

Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe we have the Ledge quote of the year!!!

[michelej1]

I should say that talking about wanting to replace John McVie was unnecessary for the breach of contract lawsuit and it was hurtful. I don’t approve, just as I didn’t approve of him saying Christine was fragile. He was talking to them through the press for leverage. The lawsuit complaint was meant for the public, not the court and I don’t know if John cared, but if he did that stings.

I suppose all is fair in past love and present war when the McVies let Stevie and Mick do what they did.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by jmn3

Lindsey's contributions to Fleetwood Mac and the impact upon the band's success has nothing to do with his solo career…The members of Fleetwood Mac were not removed from Lindsey's solo orbit so the comparison is ridiculous.

It’s a totally valid comparison. It’s not as if he changed his approach to songwriting or production between Fleetwood Mac and solo, especially between TITN and OOTC. Those songs are so aesthetically similar that they’re interchangeable. Just as Fleetwood Mac benefited from his contributions, he benefited from their brand. Do you think Big Love would have gone to #5 if it had been released on a solo album? Is it really that different from Go Insane or Doing What I Can?

The fact is that the band lacked the same degree of success during the years he wasn't in it.

While SYW peaked higher on the charts, BTM sold more copies and had a Top 40 single, so that’s open for debate. OOTC tanked, Street Angel tanked, and Time tanked. See a pattern? I doubt a studio album with the five of them would have been much of a blip in the early-mid ‘90s. Fleetwood Mac in general was about as cool as a pocket protector before their version of Hell Freezes Over.

And for the love of God, Stevie only "sold out" 20k seats in 2017 because of The Pretenders. She was never selling out arenas on her own in 2017.

Even if only half the crowd was there for Stevie, that’s 10K. LBCM played to maybe 3K. So, given that she had sold tens of millions of albums on her own and was now able to do arena tours without the band, she was firmly in the driver’s seat.

Your ability to contort every single piece of data to fit some ridiculous anti-Lindsey, pro-Stevie position is really uncanny.

When I talk about charts, sales, etc., it’s not an endorsement or rejection of the art or artist, it’s in response to claims of this person or that person being responsible for their success or superstardom. Those are very separate things. Lindsey and/or Stevie being credited for Fleetwood Mac’s success and superstardom is just as nails on the chalkboard for me as “the REAL Fleetwood Mac was Peter Green’s Fleetwood Mac.”

Fleetwood Mac’s success was more about the freak show than the music. HAHTF benefited from Fake Mac scandal to become their first Top 40 album The white album’s sales spiked after it was announced the McVies were divorcing. Similarly, TITN sold more copies after Lindsey quit than before.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Convenient for you to leave out the points about Dave Grohl and NIN.

Because it was a red herring not worthy of a reply. Nobody is arguing that Lindsey’s not an amazing producer or rock legend.

You should take a look at the Billboard attendance for Stevie's 24 Tour. Sure, it's great she made a lot of money in ticket sales and sold out The Forum and MSG which Lindsey could not do on his own happily for you.
You'll notice a lot of 7k and 8k numbers in the data. They're not Streisand or Cher numbers. When she didn't have the Pretenders, she played small cities like Green Bay, Youngstown, and St. Charles.

I’m not interested in seeing the forest for the trees. It was still the biggest solo tour of her career.

When was the last time you saw Stevie solo? I went to plenty of Stevie shows in the 2000s where they were not even close to sold out. Two of them my friends walked into the theater when the show was still going on without tickets.

I’m not a Stevie solo fan. In fact, I’ve seen her only once solo, when Sheryl Crow was in the band. By contrast, I’ve seen Lindsey outside of Fleetwood Mac four times, the most of the lot.

You don't post with impartiality. Your displeasure for Lindsey is as striking as coyote piss.

Depends on the topic. For example, whenever someone tries to claim Lindsey was misogynistic or abusive towards Stevie, I call BS. She’s never claimed he did, and I have no doubt in her ability to throw him under the bus, so if it was remotely true, she would have shouted it from the mountain by now. Also, it doesn’t fit the pattern. She demonstrably didn’t need him after 1981 yet continued working with him.