Brett Tuggle Dishes the details to Rolling Stone

[johnnystorms]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I do not like the term “redemption” for Lindsey. He did nothing to be forgiven for.

If Brett had allowed me to write the email, it would’ve stated “I hope one day there will be some vindication for Lindsey.”

Subconsciously revealing it WAS Lindsey's fault.. He can't well say his employer was to blame.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by johnnystorms

Subconsciously revealing it WAS Lindsey's fault.. He can't well say his employer was to blame.

What was Lindsey's fault? No one has given any other excuse for his firing except Musicares and Brett's description of events is identical to what we'd already heard. It's not like he's been shielding Lindsey. If Lindsey did anything else besides get mad at the intro music and, possibly, smirk, then in the 1000 times people have had the opportunity to describe what else he might have done, no one has. He's not protecting his "employer." The objective facts protect his employer.

Did Lindsey annoy Stevie? No doubt. Did he do anything to justify what happened to him? No. Failing to bow down to someone who is your peer, despite the fact that she sees herself as your queen, does not justify getting fired from the band you made iconic.

[johnnystorms]

Originally Posted by michelej1

What was Lindsey's fault? No one has given any other excuse for his firing except Musicares and Brett's description of events is identical to what we'd already heard. It's not like he's been shielding Lindsey. If Lindsey did anything else besides get mad at the intro music and, possibly, smirk, then in the 1000 times people have had the opportunity to describe what else he might have done, no one has. He's not protecting his "employer." The objective facts protect his employer.

Did Lindsey annoy Stevie? No doubt. Did he do anything to justify what happened to him? No. Failing to bow down to someone who is your peer, despite the fact that she sees herself as your queen, does not justify getting fired from the band you made iconic.

YEARS of belittling and minimizing Stevie. go back to kicking her onstage in Australia!! She's supposed to forget that?

[sue]

Where I come from, and I don’t mean village, town, country...I mean decency.
You do write to someone who has had a heart attack, you write a handwritten letter......especially someone you’ve known for decades.

You do not expect a reply!!
They’ve just had a heart attack, for God’s sake.
(That’s besides the fact that you sacked them.Yes you)

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by johnnystorms

YEARS of belittling and minimizing Stevie. go back to kicking her onstage in Australia!! She's supposed to forget that?

Oh well she deserved it. He should of kicked her harder. The truth is Lindsey criticisms of Stevie were accurate. Her ego just couldn’t take it.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Oh well she deserved it. He should of kicked her harder. The truth is Lindsey criticisms of Stevie were accurate. Her ego just couldn’t take it.

Funny how Stevie fans always, always, always gloss over John McVie and his darling, booze infused abusive behavior of pretty much the entire decade of the 70s....it’s pretty insulting to Christine. It’s always been easier to cast Lindsey as the problem child, this has been going on for decades.

[Justin Reach]

Originally Posted by johnnystorms

YEARS of belittling and minimizing Stevie. go back to kicking her onstage in Australia!! She's supposed to forget that?

The thing that puzzles me is why wasn't Lindsey sacked back then if he was so abusive to Stevie? You could argue that Stevie's had the main "pulling power" in the band since her solo career started in the early 80's so i'm sure that if she'd wanted Lindsey fired back then it would have happened. Maybe because back then Mick needed Lindsey to make new FM albums, but now making new music isn't important to Mick anymore.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by Justin Reach

The thing that puzzles me is why wasn't Lindsey sacked back then if he was so abusive to Stevie?

I ask the same thing. Vanessa Carlton tweeted Lindsey has "a history of abusing women". If Mick witnessed abuse, why didn't he fire Lindsey or call for his arrest?

Didn't they say Stevie attacked Lindsey and then he choked her on a car in 86 or 87? Yet he welcomed Lindsey back from 97-18.

[jmn3]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

I ask the same thing. Vanessa Carlton tweeted Lindsey has "a history of abusing women". If Mick witnessed abuse, why didn't he fire Lindsey or call for his arrest?

Didn't they say Stevie attacked Lindsey and then he choked her on a car in 86 or 87? Yet he welcomed Lindsey back from 97-18.

This exactly. Is Lindsey was so abusive toward Stevie, why wasn't he fired long before '87? Why did they invite him to the Oakland and LA shows at the end of 1990? Why did Stevie stand on stage for Landslide with him saying she hoped he would find it in his heart to make music with her again some day? Why did he play on Behind the Mask? The box set? Why did Mick work with him in '96? Why did Stevie work with him on Twisted? The Dance? Her career resurged after The Dance. Why did she go back and record Say You Will? Why tour for 18 months? Why do Soundstage with him? Why do Unleashed or the 2013 tour? Why bring him in for Soldier's Angel? Why do the stupid Sara dance thing or the Landslide hug for years?

As for Vanessa Carlton? Sit down lady. Why did you have Lindsey play on one of your songs? Why would you engage with a man like that at all?

[Storms123]

Originally Posted by jmn3

This exactly. Is Lindsey was so abusive toward Stevie, why wasn't he fired long before '87? Why did they invite him to the Oakland and LA shows at the end of 1990? Why did Stevie stand on stage for Landslide with him saying she hoped he would find it in his heart to make music with her again some day? Why did he play on Behind the Mask? The box set? Why did Mick work with him in '96? Why did Stevie work with him on Twisted? The Dance? Her career resurged after The Dance. Why did she go back and record Say You Will? Why tour for 18 months? Why do Soundstage with him? Why do Unleashed or the 2013 tour? Why bring him in for Soldier's Angel? Why do the stupid Sara dance thing or the Landslide hug for years?

As for Vanessa Carlton? Sit down lady. Why did you have Lindsey play on one of your songs? Why would you engage with a man like that at all?

Let's also not forget that when Mick talked about the fight at Christine's where he(LB) quit the band, he botched the story completely, made LB look like a jerk and STEVIE came out and defended LB.

As for Vanessa--This is the completely opposite of Stevie slogging herself on to younger/new performers to stay relevant. Vanessa needs Stevie to stay relevant.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by jmn3

This exactly. Is Lindsey was so abusive toward Stevie, why wasn't he fired long before '87? Why did they invite him to the Oakland and LA shows at the end of 1990? Why did Stevie stand on stage for Landslide with him saying she hoped he would find it in his heart to make music with her again some day? Why did he play on Behind the Mask? The box set? Why did Mick work with him in '96? Why did Stevie work with him on Twisted? The Dance? Her career resurged after The Dance. Why did she go back and record Say You Will? Why tour for 18 months? Why do Soundstage with him? Why do Unleashed or the 2013 tour? Why bring him in for Soldier's Angel? Why do the stupid Sara dance thing or the Landslide hug for years?

As for Vanessa Carlton? Sit down lady. Why did you have Lindsey play on one of your songs? Why would you engage with a man like that at all?

ah ah ah, Don't forget Soldier's Angel. When shippers had them getting married because he guested on that song.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by jmn3

And even so, given that SHE DELAYED A FLEETWOOD MAC TOUR HERSELF IN 2012 FOR HER SOLO WORK, the hypocrisy is as thick as mud. Why is it okay for Stevie to delay a tour and not Lindsey? Where is that question thrown back at her? What would her answer be?

Barbara Nicks died on December 28, 2011. Can anyone blame her for not being ready to jump back into the drama that is Fleetwood Mac that soon after her mother died? Mick’s Playboy interview was just 80 days later.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by johnnystorms

YEARS of belittling and minimizing Stevie. go back to kicking her onstage in Australia!! She's supposed to forget that?

Stevie has never said that Lindsey abused her. It’s an unfounded accusation. She was in a position where she didn’t need him anymore after 1981 yet continued working with him, if not begrudgingly. She said he was mean to her, but then I’m sure she was an absolute peach.

There are enough legitimate issues between them that bringing up a baseless accusation is unnecessary and unfair to Lindsey.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by johnnystorms

YEARS of belittling and minimizing Stevie. go back to kicking her onstage in Australia!! She's supposed to forget that?

Except no one can quite agree that he kicked her on stage, not even Stevie.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by John Run

It does show that Fleetwood Mac used semantics to frame their truth which had some significant factual omissions

Of course there were omissions. I’m sure legal was all over what they could and could not say. Except for Stevie botching the time frame, what they actually said wasn’t a lie.

(Not anticipating they would have to pay him north of $10 million for not playing with them)

LOL, you don’t think Irving didn’t realize they’d get sued? Fleetwood Mac isn’t the first band to fire a longstanding member. Hell, they’re not even the first band he manages that fired a longstanding member. They ALWAYS involve lawsuits. If you know you’re getting sued, you don’t show all your cards in interviews.

Lindsey is a different person than he was in 1987 that is for sure. He has mellowed and become sentimental for the art and people that shaped him.

I think once the catharsis of leaving the band wore off and OOTC flopped, he realized he needed them.

The driving factor to come back is not the money

Yeah, it’s the glory. Playing GYOW in front of 20,000 people in an arena is a way bigger rush than 1500 in a theater.

(Hell if you believe Celebrity Net Worth, Lindsey is the wealthiest member of Fleetwood Mac. CNW is not a demonstrably accurate source, but it gives you an idea that his financial situation is quite stable)

Yeah, they said a friend of mine was a multimillionaire. He’s absolutely not.

There are the same 2 or 3 posters who repeatedly twist themselves into physically and mentally impossible contortions to defend Stevie's role in this process or to maintain their anti-Buckingham positions, and it is futile to respond. Again, it is the same 2 or 3 people and some once respected posters are now nothing more than shadow puppets who enjoy seeing people react to their written gymnastics.

Or, maybe we take things said in interviews at the time into the equation instead of relying solely on a lawsuit. Wouldn’t want to have “significant factual omissions” now, would we?

Between that interview Mick did in 2017 where he talked about he and Stevie were planning on doing deep cuts and Lindsey’s comments on the Classic shows, I suspected trouble was possibly on the horizon, but what do I know?

Brett specifically notes that John McVie didn't want the change.

That’s assuming you have the right “it that he was referencing. “She wanted it to be her way more than the rest of the people did in the band. It wasn’t John McVie.” I read that as being about doing the songs from the other eras of the band and not relying on prerecords (her 24KG model, but with Fleetwood Mac).

Mick has great survival instincts. He sees the trend.

Mick also said that the band is more functional because of the changes they made. Now, maybe he’s open to working with Lindsey again outside of Fleetwood Mac, like he recently did with Rick Vito and Bekka Bramlett.