Tusk at 40: FM's defining record

[elle]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

How in the hell are you not grasping the question as to whether or not CHRISTINE sang on any of LINDSEY’S songs on LBCM?

That’s the entire premise of this thread. Aside from SYW (and “Eyes of the World”), Lindsey didn’t have the girls sing on his songs after “Rumours.”

not sure who are you yelling at.... but some of us don't like people yelling and cursing.

Sad Angel. Red Sun. Miss Fantasy.

yes. aside from.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by elle

not sure who are you yelling at.... but some of us don't like people yelling and cursing.

Sad Angel. Red Sun. Miss Fantasy.

yes. aside from.

Okay, AND EP... (forgive me for forgetting about something that was a thing for like five minutes). I guess I should also mention “The Dance,” too, while I’m at it.

“Red Sun” is a CHRISTINE vocal, so that doesn’t answer the very simple question as to whether or not Christine sang or played on any of the songs LINDSEY sang lead vocals on, but I suspect you’re intentionally being an obtuse pain in the ass instead of actually answering a simple question.

[elle]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Okay, AND EP... (forgive me for forgetting about something that was a thing for like five minutes). I guess I should also mention “The Dance,” too, while I’m at it.

“Red Sun” is a CHRISTINE vocal, so that doesn’t answer the very simple question as to whether or not Christine sang or played on any of the songs LINDSEY sang lead vocals on, but I suspect you’re intentionally being an obtuse pain in the ass instead of actually answering a simple question.

Steve. you need to calm down and stop yelling and insulting people. nobody is here so that you can question them either. and maybe you should read the title of the thread too, before claiming it's about something completely different.

Red Sun was originally a Lindsey song. Christine added lyrics to his music. she is singing a lead on his song. which part of that is so hard to understand?

you are arguing how somehow he is not "letting" her sing a backup on his songs - meanwhile he is not only "letting her" sing back up but she is singing lead on his song. Red Sun alone shoots down your whole premise. i understand you don't like it, but there it is. you know - collaboration.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by elle

Steve. you need to calm down and stop yelling and insulting people. nobody is here so that you can question them either. and maybe you should read the title of the thread too, before claiming it's about something completely different.

Red Sun was originally a Lindsey song. Christine added lyrics to his music. she is singing a lead on his song. which part of that is so hard to understand?

you are arguing how somehow he is not "letting" her sing a backup on his songs - meanwhile he is not only "letting her" sing back up but she is singing lead on his song. Red Sun alone shoots down your whole premise. i understand you don't like it, but there it is. you know - collaboration.

No it doesn’t. That’s a collaboration. He had the music, which was probably intended for Stevie, and she added lyrics and melody. In publishing, Christine would be considered 75% writer.

However, HIS songs (as opposed to THEIR songs), the ones he sang lead on, weren’t collaborations. Did Christine sing on THOSE?

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

“Red Sun” is a CHRISTINE vocal, so that doesn’t answer the very simple question as to whether or not Christine sang or played on any of the songs LINDSEY sang lead vocals on, but I suspect you’re intentionally being an obtuse pain in the ass instead of actually answering a simple question.

I want to state I disagree with this bullying of Elle. Would a male also be called the same in this context? Or demanded of to answer to someone here.

To my ears, Christine sings on the chorus of Love Is Here to Stay, On With the Show, and Lay Down for Free.

[mitzo]

I guess the reason Lindsey insisted on filling FM albums with his own solo work (that nobody wanted to hear) is his failed solo career and jealousy of Stevie's success. It was always his way of asserting himself and "getting even". It hurt the band as a number of cuts on albums were unlistenable to the majority of fans, and caused the group to basically stop recording at all as Stevie just shut down any efforts to try again.

[jmn3]

Originally Posted by mitzo

I guess the reason Lindsey insisted on filling FM albums with his own solo work (that nobody wanted to hear) is his failed solo career and jealousy of Stevie's success. It was always his way of asserting himself and "getting even". It hurt the band as a number of cuts on albums were unlistenable to the majority of fans, and caused the group to basically stop recording at all as Stevie just shut down any efforts to try again.

Um...cool take? Lindsey's solo stuff has rarely been something I am a big fan of (with some notable exceptions) and I would agree that some of his stuff on it's own is very un-Fleetwood Mac. But let's not just suggest that Stevie only brought gems to the sessions. Some of what ended up on any post-solo career Fleetwood Mac albums by any of the three were absolute pieces of trash that could be considered unlistenable to a majority of fans. If I never heard When I See You Again, Welcome to the Room, Sara, Sweet/Silver Girl, or Without You again, I would be absolutely fine. They belong in the same garbage heap of outtakes as Family Man, My Little Demon, and Red Rover.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

I want to state I disagree with this bullying of Elle. Would a male also be called the same in this context? Or demanded of to answer to someone here.

Bullying?!?

Yes, for the record, I absolutely would criticize a man for intentionally being an obtuse pain in the ass if he was intentionally being an obtuse pain in ass.

It was obvious what the initial question was and Elle kept intentionally dodging it by bringing up irrelevant examples, going to great lengths to not answer the question or simply say she didn’t know.

To my ears, Christine sings on the chorus of Love Is Here to Stay, On With the Show, and Lay Down for Free.

Maybe. It’s hard for me to distinctly hear her in there if she even is. It could just as easily the Fairlight.

[jmn3]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Bullying?!?

Yes, for the record, I absolutely would criticize a man for intentionally being an obtuse pain in the ass if he was intentionally being an obtuse pain in ass.

It was obvious what the initial question was and Elle kept intentionally dodging it by bringing up irrelevant examples, going to great lengths to not answer the question or simply say she didn’t know.



Maybe. It’s hard for me to distinctly hear her in there if she even is. It could just as easily the Fairlight.

To be fair, I would classify a lot of your posts to you being an obtuse pain in the ass just to be one. I would use that on a lot of men and women (and any other gender classifications one wants to use) on this board.

Also being fair, I agree with you that Lindsey's Fleetwood Mac songs would have benefited by including more of Christine and Stevie's voices over the years. This particular group of 5 has always been better together than any one of the individuals on their own. They all brought some critical ingredient to the pot that made those first albums fire. And yes, that includes Stevie. She's become an insufferable shrew
and her crap over the last two decades have resulted in a creative permafrost on the band culminating in her getting Lindsey fired and then going out with a ridiculous, unnecessary, and nonsensical version of the band in 2018-19. However, her input and presence was key to their achievements over the years.

[elle]

Originally Posted by jmn3

Also being fair, I agree with you that Lindsey's Fleetwood Mac songs would have benefited by including more of Christine and Stevie's voices over the years. This particular group of 5 has always been better together than any one of the individuals on their own. They all brought some critical ingredient to the pot that made those first albums fire. And yes, that includes Stevie. She's become an insufferable shrew
and her crap over the last two decades have resulted in a creative permafrost on the band culminating in her getting Lindsey fired and then going out with a ridiculous, unnecessary, and nonsensical version of the band in 2018-19. However, her input and presence was key to their achievements over the years.

agree with almost everything in this post.

the only part i'm not so sure about is "always" in the sentence i bolded. while the sum was definitely better than the separate parts initially, after Rumours, huge fame and huge egos, it all fell apart. here and there glimpses of it resurfaced on some of the songs, but never on the whole album anymore, with all 5. FM fans keep trying to re-catch that lightening in the bottle and keep claiming that can still be the case. Lindsey and Mick and Christine on and off kept trying since the Dance, too. it didn't happen. it's been 40 years plus since it last happened.

[jmn3]

Originally Posted by elle

agree with almost everything in this post.

the only part i'm not so sure about is "always" in the sentence i bolded. while the sum was definitely better than the separate parts initially, after Rumours, huge fame and huge egos, it all fell apart. here and there glimpses of it resurfaced on some of the songs, but never on the whole album anymore, with all 5. FM fans keep trying to re-catch that lightening in the bottle and keep claiming that can still be the case. Lindsey and Mick and Christine on and off kept trying since the Dance, too. it didn't happen. it's been 40 years plus since it last happened.

I think we're actually saying the same thing, elle. My point was that after Rumours, they never really naturally worked together in an organic way (oh god, I sound like LB....where's the cycles?) on an entire album which resulted in the fragmented approach you see on Tusk, Mirage, Tango, Say You Will...with fragmented and disjointed results. It's not bad...I mean Tusk has amazing moments..Gypsy is one of the most beautifully produced songs that I know...and I love pieces of the others from each of the songwriters. But there hasn't been another Rumours and there won't be. You're right, they've been trying to recapture that for 40+ years and have failed each time because their egos, solo careers, and competition with and hatred of each other just kept getting in the way. Once they made money on The Dance and saw the market for money following in the steps of The Eagles, it was too late. There was little desire to even try to let the creative juices fly. When they tried with Say You Will...it led to Stevie icing anything further.

[elle]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

I want to state I disagree with this bullying of Elle. Would a male also be called the same in this context? Or demanded of to answer to someone here.

thank you. unfortunately there's too much bullying in general, these days. people resorting to name calling when they have no good counter-arguments.

i don't think in Steve's case it's misogyny. just exasperation on having to backtrack on points he's trying to push.