Tusk at 40: FM's defining record

[ViscountViktor]

Originally Posted by elle

Chris actually took and re-wrote some of originally Lindsey songs on Buckingham McVie, not just that she's on them. she is even lead singer on some of them. Think Red Sun. that was originally Lindsey's song.

Chris and Lindsey collaborate, add on to each other, work around each other, and enjoy that. look at how many co-writes are on Buckingham McVie. some of them started as Lindsey FM songs before Chris came back, while others started as Chris songs that she sent to him to collaborate.

and yes, toxic relationship and constant one-upmanship between Stevie and Lindsey has been a problem that started manifesting itself after Rumours and was definitely not helpful for band working as a unity. they both were probably picking their battles and that resulted in uneven although sometimes interesting products.

Interesting, I didn't know Red Sun was originally Lindsey's. But still, Lindsey is singing on all 5 songs on BuckVie that Chris sings lead on, Chris definitely doesn't sing on all 5 of Lindsey's leads. Point is that after Rumours, Lindsey doesn't like sharing his tracks, which made a mockery of Fleetwood Mac being a 'band'.

I just think it's sad, what we missed out on had he allowed others in. But then strangely on Say You Will Stevie is all over his songs. Probably because he was forced to as part of her agreeing to do it.

[elle]

Originally Posted by ViscountViktor

Interesting, I didn't know Red Sun was originally Lindsey's. But still, Lindsey is singing on all 5 songs on BuckVie that Chris sings lead on, Chris definitely doesn't sing on all 5 of Lindsey's leads. Point is that after Rumours, Lindsey doesn't like sharing his tracks, which made a mockery of Fleetwood Mac being a 'band'.

I just think it's sad, what we missed out on had he allowed others in. But then strangely on Say You Will Stevie is all over his songs. Probably because he was forced to as part of her agreeing to do it.

guess you didn't have much interest in Buckingham McVie. it was all over their interviews at the time.

right, that's my point - your premise is flawed. there are tons of Lindsey tracks that are not "solo" after Rumours era, as you yourself point out. there are a good number that are solo too, sure. but it's not all or nothing, the way your theory is trying to present it.

so blaming it all on Lindsey doesn't work. he was trying really really hard to make a band album the last 15 years. there is someone else in that band who was putting a brake on it, repeatedly. we could have had several FM band albums since 2004. it's disingenuous to use the fact that Stevie repeatedly put a stop on those possible albums as an argument that it's all Lindsey's fault.

btw, I don't think Lindsey sings on Carnival Begins. and live, he definitely didn't sing on Too Far Gone (except maybe "too. far. gone" part, that the whole band sang on.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by elle

I don't think Lindsey sings on Carnival Begins. and live, he definitely didn't sing on Too Far Gone (except maybe "too. far. gone" part, that the whole band sang on.

I swear I could hear Lindsey sining on the chorus of Carnival Begin. I hear that voice with the effect he uses. It's a very soft voice.

Where I try hardest to listen for him is one spot in "Caution" I don't think it's called the bridge section. It's the CAU-UUA-TION. I can't tell if it's Lindsey and Brandon or just Brandon!

[elle]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

I swear I could hear Lindsey sining on the chorus of Carnival Begin. I hear that voice with the effect he uses. It's a very soft voice.

Where I try hardest to listen for him is one spot in "Caution" I don't think it's called the bridge section. It's the CAU-UUA-TION. I can't tell if it's Lindsey and Brandon or just Brandon!

yes! there is that one part in Caution that sounds soo so Lindsey ("Straight out of the news"). i have been re-listening to that part and couldn't figure it out, same as you. can be either way. and we know he contributed some of his production tricks to the track, from what Ronnie was saying.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

yes! there is that one part in Caution that sounds soo so Lindsey ("Straight out of the news"). i have been re-listening to that part and couldn't figure it out, same as you. can be either way. and we know he contributed some of his production tricks to the track, from what Ronnie was saying.

I think I hear him on Caution.

[SteveMacD]

How in the hell are you not grasping the question as to whether or not CHRISTINE sang on any of LINDSEY’S songs on LBCM?

That’s the entire premise of this thread. Aside from SYW (and “Eyes of the World”), Lindsey didn’t have the girls sing on his songs after “Rumours.”

[elle]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

How in the hell are you not grasping the question as to whether or not CHRISTINE sang on any of LINDSEY’S songs on LBCM?

That’s the entire premise of this thread. Aside from SYW (and “Eyes of the World”), Lindsey didn’t have the girls sing on his songs after “Rumours.”

not sure who are you yelling at.... but some of us don't like people yelling and cursing.

Sad Angel. Red Sun. Miss Fantasy.

yes. aside from.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by elle

not sure who are you yelling at.... but some of us don't like people yelling and cursing.

Sad Angel. Red Sun. Miss Fantasy.

yes. aside from.

Okay, AND EP... (forgive me for forgetting about something that was a thing for like five minutes). I guess I should also mention “The Dance,” too, while I’m at it.

“Red Sun” is a CHRISTINE vocal, so that doesn’t answer the very simple question as to whether or not Christine sang or played on any of the songs LINDSEY sang lead vocals on, but I suspect you’re intentionally being an obtuse pain in the ass instead of actually answering a simple question.

[ViscountViktor]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

How in the hell are you not grasping the question as to whether or not CHRISTINE sang on any of LINDSEY’S songs on LBCM?

That’s the entire premise of this thread. Aside from SYW (and “Eyes of the World”), Lindsey didn’t have the girls sing on his songs after “Rumours.”

Thank you. Exactly my point.

[ViscountViktor]

If Red Sun even was a Lindsey song, he probably gave the lead to Christine so the album would be split 50/50. That's really not my point.

ALL of Christine's leads on BuckVie have Lindsey on them. If Chris is on Lindsey's leads, it is very hard to make out and could easily be him putting his voice through effects, which is what he preferred to do for the MAJORITY of his 'band contributions' post Rumours. Fact.

I love loads of Lindsey's stuff post Rumours. Tusk is my favourite Mac album. But it doesn't stop my feeling that his songs would've been elevated more if he had actually allowed other people on them, in the spirit of, you know, this band he was in. I don't know the reason for it, but it comes across as selfish.

I mean, Stevie was sat in the studio for Tusk and Mirage for hours doing f*ck all. He could've actually used her.

[ViscountViktor]

Originally Posted by elle

guess you didn't have much interest in Buckingham McVie. it was all over their interviews at the time.

right, that's my point - your premise is flawed. there are tons of Lindsey tracks that are not "solo" after Rumours era, as you yourself point out. there are a good number that are solo too, sure. but it's not all or nothing, the way your theory is trying to present it.

so blaming it all on Lindsey doesn't work. he was trying really really hard to make a band album the last 15 years. there is someone else in that band who was putting a brake on it, repeatedly. we could have had several FM band albums since 2004. it's disingenuous to use the fact that Stevie repeatedly put a stop on those possible albums as an argument that it's all Lindsey's fault.

btw, I don't think Lindsey sings on Carnival Begins. and live, he definitely didn't sing on Too Far Gone (except maybe "too. far. gone" part, that the whole band sang on.

God you're unpleasant to converse with on here. Let's end this conversation.

[tabruns]

Originally Posted by ViscountViktor

Point is that after Rumours, Lindsey doesn't like sharing his tracks, which made a mockery of Fleetwood Mac being a 'band'.

I just think it's sad, what we missed out on had he allowed others in. But then strangely on Say You Will Stevie is all over his songs. Probably because he was forced to as part of her agreeing to do it.

I think FM would have benefited from Lindsey taking a more band-approach too. But regarding SAY YOU WILL, I think Buckingham and Nicks sharing vocals on most of the songs was because they were trying to avoid a "two solo albums put together" feel; and still some critics view SAY YOU WILL that way anyway.

[tabruns]

Just read GET TUSKED.

Interesting to get an inside view of how that album went down. Buckingham going back and forth between wanting to do his own thing and then back to a more band approach and back again was interesting.

Also Caillat saying at one point they had at least four tracked songs from each of the songwriters and they could have stopped there with a single album and more balanced input from each. I've always wondered what songs Mac would have gone with, had they decided TUSK was going to be a single album.

Apparently part of the reason Nicks has fewer songs on the album is because Buckingham wasn't interested in working on some of them ("The Dealer" presented as an example).

Other bits:

McVie thinking "Honey Hi" could be a hit. Also thinking "Storms" sounded "dodgy" when she first heard it.

"What Makes You Think You're The One" was a lyrical and musical slam on Nicks, down to Buckingham deliberately playing simplistic piano and doing a vibrato with his voice.

Caillat apparently thinking that several of Buckingham's songs would have sounded amazing if Buckingham hadn't insisted on "do everything 180 from where it should be".

J. McVie saying "Never Forget" "sounded awful" when they first worked on it.

Caillat's implied criticism that as the album grew into a double it skewed towards Buckingham, noting that none of Buckingham's songs were rejected, 1 of McVie's was (wonder what song that is?), and multiple Nicks songs were.

Combination of "TUSK actually sold well" and "here's why TUSK didn't sell well" presented: TUSK has sold 6.6 million and if you add in singles and "other formats" (?) sales are 9.2 million. Reasons/excuses why it didn't - Pushed out by Warners as a way too expensive double album; album played over the radio in its entirety before release; left-turn musically too much for some fans.

Overall I was surprised that the band comes off as more productive than has generally been understood, at least when they'd get down to tracking a particular song. I also thought there'd have been more in-studio viciousness presented than there was - but maybe Caillat just didn't dwell on that.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by tabruns

"What Makes You Think You're The One" was a lyrical and musical slam on Nicks, down to Buckingham deliberately playing simplistic piano and doing a vibrato with his voice.

Show of hands: Who listened to WMYTYTO after reading this quote?