Say You Will

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by sue

The great thing about these threads, it makes you go back and listen to them again.
So I’ve just watched...Come and then Say Goodbye, live from 2004.
Just fabulous, even though Come is not my favourite song,still fab..

Come doesn't sound like a FM song.

I've told the story a million times, but I hadn't bought SYW yet when it came out(no Christine, so I wasn't in much of a rush). My cousin's roommate had bought the deluxe SYW and HATED it. She gave it to me. I asked her why she hated it so much. She said, "that Come song. It doesn't sound like FM. I can't stand it".

So at least Come got me a free deluxe SYW. But it's just too "experimental hard rock" for me, too.

[jmn3]

Count me as a fan of the album since the beginning. It is absolutely too long and some of the tracks are filler but I think it is a very solid later-day Fleetwood Mac album and certainly something that shouldn't have just been forgotten about. The running order is certainly a head scratcher in many spots. Pare it down to the list below and I'd like it more, although I'd reorder the songs and pick some different singles:

WTWCT
Thrown Down
Miranda
Say You Will
Peacekeeper
Running Through the Garden
Steal Your Heart Away
Bleed to Love Her
Everybody Finds Out
Destiny Rules
Say Goodbye
Goodbye Baby

Contrary to many, I love Running Through the Garden. I think it could have been a tour de force live if they would have done it more than once. Likewise, Everybody Finds Out should have replaced Stand Back in the set for Stevie's "fast" song.

Smile At You was a total disappointment in the form that it was released. Silver Girl should have been shot into the sun via cannon. Murrow and Red Rover are just not FM enough. Come, to me, is like I'm So Afraid. Amazing live, a real dud on the album. I hated his voice on that track, whereas live I thought it rocked hard. Illume never did anything for me - it just lacks the emotion I'd figure a song with 9-11 in the title would have.

[lbfan]

Say You Will, to me, is Buckingham Nicks II. I only have Lindsey’s songs on my iPhone (and I am sure some only Stevie’s songs on their device).

[sleepless child]

I loved this record too. But the song Say you will is not a fav of mine. One of the few Stevie songs I really don't like listening too. I love alot of Lindsey's stuff and Thrown Down and Destiny Rules are some of my fav songs on the album. The documentary looked as though everyone was enjoying doing the album except when it came to the mixing and the argument between Lindsey and Stevie. I think something on the road is what caused her dislike of the Say you will expeirence

[jmn3]

Originally Posted by sleepless child

I loved this record too. But the song Say you will is not a fav of mine. One of the few Stevie songs I really don't like listening too. I love alot of Lindsey's stuff and Thrown Down and Destiny Rules are some of my fav songs on the album. The documentary looked as though everyone was enjoying doing the album except when it came to the mixing and the argument between Lindsey and Stevie. I think something on the road is what caused her dislike of the Say you will expeirence

Say You Will (the song) was as clear an attempt at filling Christine's absence as anything. It's not a bad song per se, but it's middle of the road. Nothing special. It's not what people want or expect from Nicks in the context of Fleetwood Mac. It certainly wasn't a good single choice for Fleetwood Mac in 2003 and the fact that it was pimped at every concert on that tour over some far superior Stevie tracks from the album has always been beyond me.

[cbBen]

Love the album, and will have more to say, but that Stevie or anyone else (record exec in Destiny Rules doc) thought "Say You Will" would be a hit is mind boggling.

It's so far from what a love song should be: "Girl begs boy to stick around at least long enough so she can change his mind." That's your archetypal love song? Are you kidding me? Boys chase girls or, if you want to turn the archetype on its head in an interesting way, girls chase boys. Girls don't beg boys to stick around so they can plead with them. That's a sort of mushy limbo, and not a hit love song in a million years.

The melody is pretty good but the lyrics are pretty weak. Had they brought in a lyricist to revise them into more of a classic story, then the song may have fared better.

They went so middle-of-the-road with the single choices. "Everybody Finds Out" might have been a hit. "Say You Will" and "Peacekeeper"?: not a chance.

Again, I will have more to say. I love Lindsey's production, and the album overall (though, yes, it is too long). I think she's great but on this one I don't miss Christine. It was a nice change of pace without her. I do think it would have turned out better with Lord-Alge mixing, but hindsight's 20/20.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Love the album, and will have more to say, but that Stevie or anyone else (record exec in Destiny Rules doc) thought "Say You Will" would be a hit is mind boggling.

It's so far from what a love song should be: "Girl begs boy to stick around at least long enough so she can change his mind." That's your archetypal love song? Are you kidding me? Boys chase girls or, if you want to turn the archetype on its head in an interesting way, girls chase boys. Girls don't beg boys to stick around so they can plead with them. That's a sort of mushy limbo, and not a hit love song in a million years.

The melody is pretty good but the lyrics are pretty weak. Had they brought in a lyricist to revise them into more of a classic story, then the song may have fared better.

They went so middle-of-the-road with the single choices. "Everybody Finds Out" might have been a hit. "Say You Will" and "Peacekeeper"?: not a chance.

Again, I will have more to say. I love Lindsey's production, and the album overall (though, yes, it is too long). I think she's great but on this one I don't miss Christine. It was a nice change of pace without her. I do think it would have turned out better with Lord-Alge mixing, but hindsight's 20/20.

Say you will is in my least favorite half of songs on the album but it still would have been better than Peacekeeper as the first single.
But one thing the Mac kept consistent is not letting Nicks ever have the first single off any album (even without Christine).
I catch the groove of Say You Will and I have a soft spot because it was written for or inspired for Christine. I just hate the ending.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Love the album, and will have more to say, but that Stevie or anyone else (record exec in Destiny Rules doc) thought "Say You Will" would be a hit is mind boggling.

It's so far from what a love song should be: "Girl begs boy to stick around at least long enough so she can change his mind." That's your archetypal love song? Are you kidding me? Boys chase girls or, if you want to turn the archetype on its head in an interesting way, girls chase boys. Girls don't beg boys to stick around so they can plead with them. That's a sort of mushy limbo, and not a hit love song in a million years.

The melody is pretty good but the lyrics are pretty weak. Had they brought in a lyricist to revise them into more of a classic story, then the song may have fared better.

They went so middle-of-the-road with the single choices. "Everybody Finds Out" might have been a hit. "Say You Will" and "Peacekeeper"?: not a chance.

Again, I will have more to say. I love Lindsey's production, and the album overall (though, yes, it is too long). I think she's great but on this one I don't miss Christine. It was a nice change of pace without her. I do think it would have turned out better with Lord-Alge mixing, but hindsight's 20/20.

This has always been Lindsey's issue/gripe. It was certainly his concern for SYW which he talks about in the documentary. he knew the powers that be would pick the most conservative songs from all of the songs he could contribute and he'd have to fight for more experimental or just less conservative songs. But even then they'd pick the most conservative of those for singles. he was right.

Stevie herself has said, when talking about her solo career, that she's never been good at picking singles, at knowing which songs would make great singles. Jimmy sure was, and she relied on him and others (Fishkin, Danny Goldberg etc) to make those decisions. So she wouldn't be much help on that front.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by cbBen

It's so far from what a love song should be: "Girl begs boy to stick around at least long enough so she can change his mind." That's your archetypal love song? Are you kidding me? Boys chase girls or, if you want to turn the archetype on its head in an interesting way, girls chase boys. Girls don't beg boys to stick around so they can plead with them. That's a sort of mushy limbo, and not a hit love song in a million years.

The melody is pretty good but the lyrics are pretty weak. Had they brought in a lyricist to revise them into more of a classic story, then the song may have fared better.

It is laden with cheesy lyrics.

Had they brought in a lyricist? Can you IMAGINE $tevie's response to that?
Ben, would you say that to Bob Dylan?

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Love the album, and will have more to say, but that Stevie or anyone else (record exec in Destiny Rules doc) thought "Say You Will" would be a hit is mind boggling.

It's so far from what a love song should be: "Girl begs boy to stick around at least long enough so she can change his mind." That's your archetypal love song? Are you kidding me? Boys chase girls or, if you want to turn the archetype on its head in an interesting way, girls chase boys. Girls don't beg boys to stick around so they can plead with them. That's a sort of mushy limbo, and not a hit love song in a million years.

The melody is pretty good but the lyrics are pretty weak. Had they brought in a lyricist to revise them into more of a classic story, then the song may have fared better.

But if you are impersonating Christine, those are the lyrics you write because Christine writes lyrics like that, pleading to the man, begging to be deceived just a little longer, just to keep him. Stevie eschews Dutch sentiments. I remember when she did Reconsider Me she said that words like that were not really her thing.

[jcalzaretta]

this review is spot on. I agree 150%


WTWCT
Thrown Down
Miranda
Say You Will
Peacekeeper
Running Through the Garden
Steal Your Heart Away
Bleed to Love Her
Everybody Finds Out
Destiny Rules
Say Goodbye
Goodbye Baby

Contrary to many, I love Running Through the Garden. I think it could have been a tour de force live if they would have done it more than once. Likewise, Everybody Finds Out should have replaced Stand Back in the set for Stevie's "fast" song.

Smile At You was a total disappointment in the form that it was released. Silver Girl should have been shot into the sun via cannon. Murrow and Red Rover are just not FM enough. Come, to me, is like I'm So Afraid. Amazing live, a real dud on the album. I hated his voice on that track, whereas live I thought it rocked hard. Illume never did anything for me - it just lacks the emotion I'd figure a song with 9-11 in the title would have.

[Macfan4life]

Illume is pure Lindsey. I used to say the same thing about Over and Over. I actually had the live album before Tusk. So I was used to the live version and the album version is cold and has no warmth yet the lyrics are warm and inviting.
It's part of Lindsey's production. Was 9/11 warm and fuzzy? No.
My point is that its perfectly fine to not like the song but the reasons people give irk me. Do people really want a catchy pop song about 9/11. Has anyone listened to the song with headphones? Its more of a poem set to music than a song to sing along to.
The song is unpredictable. You don't know where its going with any melody. It sounds like Stevie is singing into a tube in her bathroom. Its cold and distant. Its about mass death and escaping the stench. It captures every element of the feeling of 9/11 IMHO. Its actually confusing the first few times you hear it. Remember the confusion of 9/11?
I can appreciate what Lindsey did with the song because its all him. It would have been an easy pass to put it on an album but I am glad it did. Lindsey calls himself a painter and this painting would be a dark and confusing painting. People would not like the painting and fear it or say "it does nothing for me." But if someone explained the painting to you, you would appreciate what the artist was conveying.

[jcalzaretta]

1. WTWCT. This is fine. Nothing special
2. Murrow. Can do without.
3. Illume. Like it fine. Has some great parts. Obviously meaningful about 9/11
4. Thrown Down. Pure Brilliance
5. Miranda. Love it. Not a fan of the fade out part. But love the song.
6. Red Rover. Don't like it
7. Say You Will. Love it.
8. Peacekeeper. LOVE IT. The vocals are amazing here.
9. Come. Don't like it
10. Smile at you. Ruined. Just left me speechless given the brilliance of the demo.
11. Running Through the Garden. LOVE IT. Wish they kept this in set list.
12. Silver Girl. Garbage
13. Steel Your Heart Away. One of the loveliest songs I ever heard. Absolutely adore this.
14. Bleed to Love Her. LOVE IT
15. Everybody Finds Out. LOVE IT
16. Destiny Rules. LOVE IT
17. Say Goodbye. Great song. Done so well live.
18. Goodbye Baby. Fine.

[cbBen]

The above matches my evaluation almost exactly, except I like "Murrow" and don't like the title track (the melody fine, the lyrics not so much). I will also say I don't think "Smile At You" was ruined. Remember Stevie was a lot older. They weren't going to recreate that raw anger as effectively. This was about as good as they could do at this point.