Get Tusked

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

but he didn't, and he got fired, or just wasn't re-hired for subsequent work. That's how producing works, Ken, so get over it already.

A good example of class is Keith Olsen, who is basically responsible for introducing LB and SN to Polydor and then to FM. His work on the white album was exceptional, but he wasn't asked back. From what I recall, Keith liked to prominently feature the bottom end, a point of contention between him and Lindsey once they began talks about Rumours. So, bye Keith. I've never heard him bitch about this.

For what it's worth, the prominent bottom end is what really draws me to the white album. John's creative bass lines really stand out, especially on "Blue Letter," "Rhiannon," "Over My Head," "Say Your Love Me, "Sugar Daddy, " and "World Turning."

And the drums--wow--"World Turning" and "So Afraid" are truly standouts because of Mick's work.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

A good example of class is Keith Olsen, who is basically responsible for introducing LB and SN to Polydor and then to FM. His work on the white album was exceptional, but he wasn't asked back. From what I recall, Keith liked to prominently feature the bottom end, a point of contention between him and Lindsey once they began talks about Rumours. So, bye Keith. I've never heard him bitch about this.

For what it's worth, the prominent bottom end is what really draws me to the white album. John's creative bass lines really stand out, especially on "Blue Letter," "Rhiannon," "Over My Head," "Say Your Love Me, "Sugar Daddy, " and "World Turning."

And the drums--wow--"World Turning" and "So Afraid" are truly standouts because of Mick's work.

yes. John's playing grounds so many of Stevie's songs especially and gives them a depth they wouldn't otherwise have. I mean, the first couple bars of Dreams and you know what it is from that bass line and drums.
His playing makes Angel a thousand times more than what it is when she does it solo and the focus is on the keyboards. Rhiannon it goes without saying.

THat's my biggest bone of contention with LB's production. He slowly pushed the rhythm section further and further down in the mix. Even some of Chris's playing too.

[cbBen]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

THat's my biggest bone of contention with LB's production. He slowly pushed the rhythm section further and further down in the mix. Even some of Chris's playing too.

It's hard to disagree with this. At some point, they started sounding less like a band and more like Lindsey's toolkit. Don't get me wrong, I love the results. But on Say You Will, for example, Mick's drumming doesn't seem to be the same kind of essential ingredient as on the albums from the seventies.

One thing that helped puncture my "Lindsey's the greatest producer on planet earth" bubble was hearing the TISL outtake version of "Thrown Down." I found myself astounded to wonder, "Could this be better than the version Lindsey produced"? It's a rare instance where we have an A-to-B comparison of how two different producers handle the same song; and the Lindsey-produced version, while perhaps better (I don't feel strongly one way or the other), is in any case not a clear far-and-away improvement.

[elle]

Originally Posted by cbBen

One thing that helped puncture my "Lindsey's the greatest producer on planet earth" bubble was hearing the TISL outtake version of "Thrown Down." I found myself astounded to wonder, "Could this be better than the version Lindsey produced"? It's a rare instance where we have an A-to-B comparison of how two different producers handle the same song; and the Lindsey-produced version, while perhaps better (I don't feel strongly one way or the other), is in any case not a clear far-and-away improvement.

weren't people here saying that BOTH those versions were arranged and produced by Lindsey? and most seem to like TISL (was it wall of sound?) version better?

SYW version sounds to me like it was produced by Ken, tbh (it's not).

[cbBen]

Originally Posted by elle

weren't people here saying that BOTH those versions were arranged and produced by Lindsey?

This would be news to me. I'd love to know.

They are so different, but maybe that's due to the mix rather than to the production.

Lindsey may made the wrong call by going with Needham over Lord-Alge to mix Say You Will. The reason he gives in Destiny Rules (that Lord-Alge, being so in demand, works too quickly) does not make sense. It does not follow that someone will do a better job just because they take longer to do it. Maybe Lord-Alge being in demand is a sign that he does good work, regardless of how quickly he does it.

[elle]

Originally Posted by cbBen

This would be news to me. I'd love to know.

They are so different, but maybe that's due to the mix rather than to the production.

Lindsey may made the wrong call by going with Needham over Lord-Alge to mix Say You Will. The reason he gives in Destiny Rules (that Lord-Alge, being so in demand, works too quickly) does not make sense. It does not follow that someone will do a better job just because they take longer to do it. Maybe Lord-Alge being in demand is a sign that he does good work, regardless of how quickly he does it.

i think DR may paint a distorted picture of these 2 engineers. they are both incredibly accomplished and have tons of work under their belt, especially Needham:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Needham (he mixed/produced breakthrough albums by The Killers, Imagine Dragons, and Walk the Moon, among many others, his discography is impressive)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Lord-Alge (he mixed American Idiot by Green Day)

i think what's under the surface of that argument is your regular push-pull between Stevie and Lindsey - Needham is Lindsey's pick, he has been working with him continuously before and after (he mixed BuckVie and i believe Solo Anthology, most recently), while Lord-Alge is Stevie's pick, she has worked with him a lot. Lindsey =was a producer and wanted someone whose work he liked and was in sync with. Stevie wanted leverage against Lindsey so she wanted her guy. the rest are all excuses.

[sleepless child]

I don't care for the Tusk book as much as I liked the Rumours book. Tusk seems rushed. No photos and yes I noticed the timeline difference also.

His comments in the interview are pretty bad. It sounds like since he talks to Mick and John, that he is on the Mick bandwagon when it comes to Lindsey.

It sounds like everything that Stevie said. According to one of Ken's post's, he claimed Stevie told Lindsey, why do a solo album, it won't sell anyway. I feel really bad for Lindsey, talk about beating someone when they are down.

[cbBen]

Originally Posted by elle

i think DR may paint a distorted picture of these 2 engineers. they are both incredibly accomplished and have tons of work under their belt, especially Needham:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Needham (he mixed/produced breakthrough albums by The Killers, Imagine Dragons, and Walk the Moon, among many others, his discography is impressive)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Lord-Alge (he mixed American Idiot by Green Day)

i think what's under the surface of that argument is your regular push-pull between Stevie and Lindsey - Needham is Lindsey's pick, he has been working with him continuously before and after (he mixed BuckVie and i believe Solo Anthology, most recently), while Lord-Alge is Stevie's pick, she has worked with him a lot. Lindsey =was a producer and wanted someone whose work he liked and was in sync with. Stevie wanted leverage against Lindsey so she wanted her guy. the rest are all excuses.

This all makes sense.

Chris Lord-Alge also mixed Out Of The Cradle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_the_Cradle

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

A good example of class is Keith Olsen, who is basically responsible for introducing LB and SN to Polydor and then to FM. His work on the white album was exceptional, but he wasn't asked back. From what I recall, Keith liked to prominently feature the bottom end, a point of contention between him and Lindsey once they began talks about Rumours. So, bye Keith. I've never heard him bitch about this.

For what it's worth, the prominent bottom end is what really draws me to the white album. John's creative bass lines really stand out, especially on "Blue Letter," "Rhiannon," "Over My Head," "Say Your Love Me, "Sugar Daddy, " and "World Turning."

And the drums--wow--"World Turning" and "So Afraid" are truly standouts because of Mick's work.

Don't forget that walking bass in Crystal. Whomever decided to put the keyboard solo with that walking bass line... Genius! and then it fades like the "sea".

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Don't forget that walking bass in Crystal. Whomever decided to put the keyboard solo with that walking bass line... Genius! and then it fades like the "sea".

It's one of the band's best instrumental moments on record. A real feature for the McVies.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

It's one of the band's best instrumental moments on record. A real feature for the McVies.

A McVie moment on a B/N tune!!! shhhh You'll upset people that think the band is Lindsey and Stevie.

[David]

I actually bought this book yesterday and I finished it last night. Sure, it has some good juicy stuff, even if the narrative is obviously constructed in a cheesy, after-the-fact approach. But the flaws are threefold for this sort of book:

• The photos are blurry or fuzzy or just stupid. Can’t you find some better photos from a year in the studio? How about check Tumblr? Or call Peter Beard for tearsheets.

• We’re not interested in your love life or your immigration story or your shenanigans around town if Fleetwood Mac weren’t involved. Way too much space is given to such claptrap. If you didn’t feel like writing more about Fleetwood Mac (or couldn’t remember anything else to add), shorten your damn book and lower the price a little. Don’t pad it with your personal detritus. Start a blog instead.

• Last but most important, you’re both longtime studio engineers but the rest of us are not. This book is absolutely filled with techno-geek jargon that probably 99 percent of us don’t understand. Why didn’t you bother paraphrasing some of this recording verbiage into something that would mean something to us readers? Are you just showing off your knowledge? There were so many times I wanted to hear a clear, straightforward description of the technology and the approach (for example, mic setup or instrument placement around the room) for certain songs but couldn’t wade through the clotted undergrowth of your pseudodescriptive language. It was pretentious. I have a pretty good background in music theory, can read staff notation, and play an instrument, but I couldn’t understand you 75 percent of the time you were discussing the songs or the studio. “Let’s put the amp in the iso room with two close mics on it.” Uhh, sure.

I give this book a 5 out of 10. The Rumours book is arriving next.

[sleepless child]

You'll enjoy the Rumours book better. For some reason, my book doesn't have photos. I bought it on Nook and I'm reading through it. I'm not sure why I have no photos. But it seems they are not that great anyway.

[desertangel]

Hmmm... I'm having technical problems connecting my Kindle to the internet and don't want to hassle with a printed version. I was trying to think of another way to overcome this, but after reading this thread, I'm not sure I want to. I'm in the process of rereading the Rumours book and am definitely picking up on a slightly hostile, ego-driven, negativity thing maybe? Hadn't really picked up on that before, I don't think. I had several conversations with Ken and met him a couple times including at The Record Plant for the book signing. He seemed like a nice enough guy. Although he promised me a personal tour of the studio after I arrived a day early from Portland, that never happened. I took his word at face value, but now I wonder if he wasn't trying to display some carefully placed swagger to match his book persona. Nah, I'm overthinking it. HAHA!!! His wife was with him for the Sausalito part of the book tour and they stayed at the same hotel in Mill City where I stayed. We all had S'Mores at the patio fire pit that night.

Anyway, he's probably writing these books this way to sell copies. I think that's a problem with being a decades long die-hard fan. It can take some effort to get over artistic license.

I need to find a way to download the book to my iPad. I guess it's not available on iTunes and maybe it never will be. I'm using public wifi and the Kindle wants a login which it can only obtain using the browser, but something about the public wifi signal won't allow the login. The error is too generic... "Can't perform Login Task."