Who Has Given Up ??

BigAl84 · #1 04-03-2019, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I could buy that if he had been doing a lot of touring, but he just went away for five years. Like, did the songs need an extra year and a half to sound better? At some point, doesn’t a song just have to be done? How many extra oohs, ahs, handclaps, electronic percussion hits, or miscellaneous guitar parts will it take to actually improve the song? At what point is it a major artist achievement or just a grand exercise in self-indulgence?

Those albums were more hobby than career move or artistic statement. Christine’s first solo album was done because she was bored being a housewife with nothing to do while John was on tour and “In The Meantime” was something her nephew basically started.

I totally agree that OOTC is better than Stevie’s albums, but that’s not exactly the point.

We are so relieved you approve. I have to admit, it was a nail biter!

Yeah, he didn't tour nearly 500 dates in three years like Stevie, that workhorse-whippersnapper-miracle worker that she is, working harder than anyone in showbiz, all the way to the rock hall baby!!

Clearly In the Meantime would of been a cultural treasure had Christine had the pure privilege to have you produce it. After all you are our Robert Mandavi of music criticism, our gracious well of music production expertise.

While we are on the topic of just how many oohs and ahhs are really needed, I too often wondered just how many stinkin' stairs did stevie REALLY need to climb in that talk to me video. Right?!

michelej1 · #2 04-03-2019, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Yeah, he didn't tour nearly 500 dates in three years like Stevie, that workhorse whippersnapper miracle worker that she is, working harder than anyone in showbiz, all the way to the rock hall baby!!

She works like a soldier in the army.

BigAl84 · #3 04-03-2019, 09:58 PM

Like a Soldier's Angel.

HomerMcvie · #4 04-03-2019, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelej1

She works like a soldier in the army.

Her life has been so difficult.

SteveMacD · #5 04-04-2019, 12:15 AM

The fact is out of sight, out of mind, and Lindsey dropped off the radar for too long and had lengthy gaps between albums and tours.

As did Christine.

Fleetwood Mac without Christine played to packed arenas, Fleetwood Mac without Lindsey is playing to packed arenas, Stevie as a solo act gets on bills that play to arenas, LBCM played to 2/3 to 3/4 mid-sized amphitheaters. Stevie is in the position she’s in because she worked hard to have two commercially viable careers and doesn’t have those types of gaps between tours, so it’s harder for people to imagine a Fleetwood Mac tour without her. She’s also finding new ways of staying relevant to younger audiences.

mitzo · #6 04-04-2019, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

The fact is out of sight, out of mind, and Lindsey dropped off the radar for too long and had lengthy gaps between albums and tours.

As did Christine.

Fleetwood Mac without Christine played to packed arenas, Fleetwood Mac without Lindsey is playing to packed arenas, Stevie as a solo act gets on bills that play to arenas, LBCM played to 2/3 to 3/4 mid-sized amphitheaters. Stevie is in the position she’s in because she worked hard to have two commercially viable careers and doesn’t have those types of gaps between tours, so it’s harder for people to imagine a Fleetwood Mac tour without her. She’s also finding new ways of staying relevant to younger audiences.

I wish she had paid as much attention to recording as to touring, especially as her abilities fade with age and overuse. Her solo output is weak in quantity and, often, quality. Her real legacy will be the recordings and not the tours, sadly.

BigAl84 · #7 04-04-2019, 06:52 AM

And all of these decisions were ones she made. Whoever it was who told her 20 years ago that she didn't have to work that hard, just tour your back catalog,you don't need to create new music, she really took to that piece of advice. For her, that was probably the worst thing somebody could of told her as she has always needed a strong nudge and support from others to get new music across the finish line.

In turn, it shifted her focus from being an active artist to primarily focusing on peddling the persona and image of herself that was is largely rooted in the work of prior decades. There are one of two routes that people tend to go. She spent a considerable amount of time developing her catalog of work and personal image as a brand and primarily focused on driving that brand out into the market. Sadly, IMO a huge part of that persona has been cemented or centered around playing Rhiannon (or similar) in hockey arenas. Playing that image in front of the largest common denominator.

Lindsey went the other route. He spent more time in the studio. More time developing his work, less time preoccupied with selling an image or himself as a brand. This is why his guitar playing is often described as "iconic" but there isn't this visual iconic image that is associated with him. For fans it is that turner guitar and style/tone of playing.

David · #8 04-04-2019, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl84

And all of these decisions were ones she made. Whoever it was who told her 20 years ago that she didn't have to work that hard, just tour your back catalog,you don't need to create new music, she really took to that piece of advice.

I loved hearing Stevie sing on her first three tours, her 1994 tour, and maybe a little of her 1998 tour. But only her first tour was really a stretch for her conceptually. For the first time ever, she and her band had to figure out a way to present her for a complete show, and they were creative and successful. They built a strong set featuring nearly all of her new album, some key Mac hits, a movie soundtrack song, a first-time-ever cover, and even an unreleased song. They created a sort of narrative arc, too—we take certain things for granted nowadays like the use of Edge of Seventeen as a set closer and Rhiannon as an encore, but that practice had to be imagined for the first time in 1981. The Mac songs were many of them inventively treated musically, like Angel and Rhiannon and Gold Dust Woman—the Mac versions were obviously not used as blueprints.

But the 1983 tour (which I loved for its amazing drugged-up passion and conviction and sense of liberation) was, structurally, a note-for-note repeat of the 1981 tour. It was at that point that Lindsey's criticism of the lounge act was made and it was accurate. Bad news after that, too: virtually every tour afterward was more or less a repeat of the 1981 creation—with a couple of new songs tossed in to indicate that, yes, we are promoting the newest album.

This last tour with Chrissie Hynde was remarkable for its differences from the old formula. Stevie went out on a limb again and tried to create a new show. Props to her (at least from me). Unfortunately, by that time, she had singing problems.

I can't think of many elements of all her tours that were really new or that really tried to present her from a different angle. Even her toying with the orchestra in Melbourne was unsurprising—lots of acts had done that by that time.

Those of you who have heard all the old audience recordings of old shows probably remember hearing Stevie make onstage jokes and comments about "just me and a piano." Imagine her ever actually having the guts to do that. Well, Lindsey did that, right? Not even a piano, just him and his guitar. There isn't a chance in hell Stevie would ever be that bold and shake up her formula to that degree. From Lindsey's guitar army, with its intricately planned orchestrations and precision, to his solo guitar tour, Lindsey is no lounge act. She has been one for a long time, a very successful, beloved lounge act. That's what makes you a lounge act: the habit of repeating your old successes in the old frames of reference year after year—never trying to recreate yourself or the impressions you're making on the audience.