Unpopular Lindsey opinions/theories

[sodascouts]

I prefer Lindsey's music when he's not doing all the production tricks. He loves that so much, and he takes so much pride in it, that I almost feel guilty saying that... and I also know it's not very "avant garde" of me... but give me Lindsey on a guitar singing naturally over sped-up guitar effects-laden distorted voice Lindsey any day.

[HoursAndHours]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

I prefer Lindsey's music when he's not doing all the production tricks. He loves that so much, and he takes so much pride in it, that I almost feel guilty saying that... and I also know it's not very "avant garde" of me... but give me Lindsey on a guitar singing naturally over sped-up guitar effects-laden distorted voice Lindsey any day.

At least, he should never, ever, ever upon ever, be allowed to touch the "pan audio" control again. Lol.

[cbBen]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

I prefer Lindsey's music when he's not doing all the production tricks. He loves that so much, and he takes so much pride in it, that I almost feel guilty saying that... and I also know it's not very "avant garde" of me... but give me Lindsey on a guitar singing naturally over sped-up guitar effects-laden distorted voice Lindsey any day.

I prefer the version of "I Am Waiting" on the Gift Of Screws bootleg to the quieter/sped-up one on Under The Skin.

[David]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

I prefer Lindsey's music when he's not doing all the production tricks.

Sign me up on this one, at least in principle. He's been tampering with the warmth of the natural voice too much for several years in the studio. I love the clarity he used to get on instruments back when he really was a superb engineer—from 1976 through about 1984. But in recent years, I think his ear has let him down. Already by 1979, some critics were pointing out that some tracks had an opaque, willowy echo on them, like strands of weeds in a burbling brook. That approach has become Lindsey's hallmark now, unfortunately for me. I no longer hear distinct tracks and their complementary qualities when I listen to something like When She Comes Down or Murrow. I hear wisps of reverb shoot through my ear like air through a seashell. The musical structure gets impaired; bars melt into one another so that you're not even sure of the passage of musical time.

In 1983 or so, when he bought himself the Fairlight CMI, instead of using it for subtle coloring (which I wish he had), he sampled the hell out of everything and painstakingly (and self-consciously) crafted a rather grunty, clubfooted monster out of bits of sonic tissue. That's how we got the Go Insane album and even the Tango in the Night album. (Play in the Rain is so over-the-top as an objet trouvé and "found sounds" that I honestly think sometimes he meant it as a self-referential joke.) Lindsey turned a lot of his studio music into "art" music, or into an Eighties and Nineties version of prog, and its turned out to be less interesting on repeat than the Never Going Back Again or It Was I style of production.

Go back to the rough takes and early dubs of I Know I'm Not Wrong on the Tusk deluxe. Those jump out of the speaker at you—they're so playful and soulful. What ever happened to that Lindsey?

Also, about the I Don't Want to Know stuff that we're all talking about, don't forget that the Penguin ran a bunch of Q&As years ago, and one or two of them were with people from the Buckingham Nicks band, like Hoppy Hodges. They talk a little bit about that song and several others that got recorded for later Fleetwood albums. Don't forget to read them (or reread them if you're an old timer here).

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by David

Sign me up on this one, at least in principle. He's been tampering with the warmth of the natural voice too much for several years in the studio. I love the clarity he used to get on instruments back when he really was a superb engineer—from 1976 through about 1984. But in recent years, I think his ear has let him down. Already by 1979, some critics were pointing out that some tracks had an opaque, willowy echo on them, like strands of weeds in a burbling brook. That approach has become Lindsey's hallmark now, unfortunately for me. I no longer hear distinct tracks and their complementary qualities when I listen to something like When She Comes Down or Murrow. I hear wisps of reverb shoot through my ear like air through a seashell. The musical structure gets impaired; bars melt into one another so that you're not even sure of the passage of musical time.

In 1983 or so, when he bought himself the Fairlight CMI, instead of using it for subtle coloring (which I wish he had), he sampled the hell out of everything and painstakingly (and self-consciously) crafted a rather grunty, clubfooted monster out of bits of sonic tissue. That's how we got the Go Insane album and even the Tango in the Night album. (Play in the Rain is so over-the-top as an objet trouvé and "found sounds" that I honestly think sometimes he meant it as a self-referential joke.) Lindsey turned a lot of his studio music into "art" music, or into an Eighties and Nineties version of prog, and its turned out to be less interesting on repeat than the Never Going Back Again or It Was I style of production.

Go back to the rough takes and early dubs of I Know I'm Not Wrong on the Tusk deluxe. Those jump out of the speaker at you—they're so playful and soulful. What ever happened to that Lindsey?

Also, about the I Don't Want to Know stuff that we're all talking about, don't forget that the Penguin ran a bunch of Q&As years ago, and one or two of them were with people from the Buckingham Nicks band, like Hoppy Hodges. They talk a little bit about that song and several others that got recorded for later Fleetwood albums. Don't forget to read them (or reread them if you're an old timer here).

^This.

Enough of the breathy, whispery, or grunty vocals.

I get that he's trying to make a whole album with just a single human voice sound like more voices and more textures to keep it from being monotonous, but there is a line and he has crossed it too often.

Also, what's wrong with a straightforward song that doesn't try and be too clever? Gift of Screws is such a fun song that just rocks. I know he draws inspiration from Brian Wilson, but when he goes back to his John Stewart influences it's great and even his love of the Stones.

If we heard a mix of his influences on each album it'd be great; however some albums he's just stayed in one style and after like the 4th whispered song it's wearying.

His music is at it's least appealing (for me) when he tries too hard to be too 'cerebral' or 'clever' with it -- "Look what I did there! Wasn't that smart?" Often his stuff can be too cold, too 'manufactured', like a home done in a sleek, modernist, industrial style-- all concrete and metal. It cries out for a nice rug or a soft throw or something. Music needs to hook you emotionally, it needs some warmth, and his best songs are a combination of cleverness and authentic emotion-- GYOW, NGBA, SHN, most of OOTC, a lot on GoS.

[fleetwoodguy79]

Originally Posted by David

Sign me up on this one, at least in principle. He's been tampering with the warmth of the natural voice too much for several years in the studio. I love the clarity he used to get on instruments back when he really was a superb engineer—from 1976 through about 1984. But in recent years, I think his ear has let him down. Already by 1979, some critics were pointing out that some tracks had an opaque, willowy echo on them, like strands of weeds in a burbling brook. That approach has become Lindsey's hallmark now, unfortunately for me. I no longer hear distinct tracks and their complementary qualities when I listen to something like When She Comes Down or Murrow. I hear wisps of reverb shoot through my ear like air through a seashell. The musical structure gets impaired; bars melt into one another so that you're not even sure of the passage of musical time.

In 1983 or so, when he bought himself the Fairlight CMI, instead of using it for subtle coloring (which I wish he had), he sampled the hell out of everything and painstakingly (and self-consciously) crafted a rather grunty, clubfooted monster out of bits of sonic tissue. That's how we got the Go Insane album and even the Tango in the Night album. (Play in the Rain is so over-the-top as an objet trouvé and "found sounds" that I honestly think sometimes he meant it as a self-referential joke.) Lindsey turned a lot of his studio music into "art" music, or into an Eighties and Nineties version of prog, and its turned out to be less interesting on repeat than the Never Going Back Again or It Was I style of production.

Go back to the rough takes and early dubs of I Know I'm Not Wrong on the Tusk deluxe. Those jump out of the speaker at you—they're so playful and soulful. What ever happened to that Lindsey?

Also, about the I Don't Want to Know stuff that we're all talking about, don't forget that the Penguin ran a bunch of Q&As years ago, and one or two of them were with people from the Buckingham Nicks band, like Hoppy Hodges. They talk a little bit about that song and several others that got recorded for later Fleetwood albums. Don't forget to read them (or reread them if you're an old timer here).

It pains me to write this...

But I've been thinking about exactly this same thing after listening to his anthology. His production style is very, very harsh; where he tends to use electric sounds without any processing to leave the ragged saw waves (whether it be analog or digital).

There are so many hard edges on everything that it really puts the vocals in a weird place. And I think he realized that, too, which is when he starting doing this strange whisper / reverb / delay thing with his voice. I miss his voice. He sounds fantastic live, still to do this day. His demos from each era really show how more balanced the songs could have been, sonically. Though still for me Tusk is the pinnacle balance of the warmth of the 70s and Lindsey's genius production techniques at the time.

So then let's compare Go Insane and OOTC with Tango... Both GI and OOTC to me are still too harsh to deliver the message and intent behind his songs. Tango to me has become my favorite Lindsey album as of lately just because it's become more contemporary. The blend of his production and the warmth of the Mac sound are wonderfully balanced.

His live guitar tone is OK. I hated it during the Dance era. It was so twangy and had no balls to it, though his playing was superb. Nowadays it sounds pretty good.

Though to me, that "atomic bomb" sound he got out of his Tuner on the Tusk Tour with that fuzz thing is the most signature Lindsey sound I've heard yet. Still even to this day (nah, I'm not that old...) it inspires me as a musician.

Lastly, can we talk about how good Buck/McVie was?? The production is MUCH more balanced between Lindsey's signature techniques and someone else smoothing them out. That's when Lindsey's at his best.

Thanks for starting this thread, has been fun to read.

[mitzo]

I guess I am the dissenter here in that I love his tricky production and complexity. I like my music complex and unusual. It is artistic and creative and inspires repeated listens to catch new sounds. If only it is not his voice or his songs, sorry. He made miracles out of some of Chris and Stevie's songs. Stevie is a complete idiot not to work with him as producer. SYW was her best ever solo album by far, nine jewels of songs with intoxicating production. Unlike her often anodyne or WTF production on solo albums.

[cbBen]

After reading some of the Stevie Nicks "unpopular opinions" thread, it makes perfect sense to me that in order to satisfy Stevie in the wake of cutting "Silver Springs" from Rumours, they agreed to give her writing credit on the song that replaced it ("I Don't Want To Know").

[secondhandchain]

Originally Posted by mitzo

I guess I am the dissenter here in that I love his tricky production and complexity. I like my music complex and unusual. It is artistic and creative and inspires repeated listens to catch new sounds. If only it is not his voice or his songs, sorry. He made miracles out of some of Chris and Stevie's songs. Stevie is a complete idiot not to work with him as producer. SYW was her best ever solo album by far, nine jewels of songs with intoxicating production. Unlike her often anodyne or WTF production on solo albums.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE his studio wizardry. One of the reasons I became a fan. I do wish he would not do those whisper vocals as much.

[cbBen]

Originally Posted by secondhandchain

I do wish he would not do those whisper vocals as much.

The whispering on "Say Goodbye" really stands out in a negative light when you compare it to live performances. True of many other songs as well (like "Shut Us Down"). It's like he's using his "inside voice."

[cbBen]

I think the Go Insane album is awful. I can't believe he put so many songs from it on the new anthology.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by mitzo

I guess I am the dissenter here in that I love his tricky production and complexity. I like my music complex and unusual. It is artistic and creative and inspires repeated listens to catch new sounds. If only it is not his voice or his songs, sorry. He made miracles out of some of Chris and Stevie's songs. Stevie is a complete idiot not to work with him as producer. SYW was her best ever solo album by far, nine jewels of songs with intoxicating production. Unlike her often anodyne or WTF production on solo albums.

agree with all of this; but there are times when he takes the wizardry too far, like it's more about showing off the wizardry rather than in service of the song.