“Stevie is running the show,” tour keyboardist says in interview

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

again, missing the point that it's not that she did it as much as HOW she did it.

Not only that she gave the band an ultimatum but that she immediately had his replacement at hand. It suggests there was a degree of forethought, like maybe she had been just waiting for the right moment to make her move and finally get this guy out of her life. (ETA: she wants it both ways-- she wants him out, but she wants him to bail her out when she gets stuck on her songs, e.g., Soldier's Angel. So maybe she doesn't want him OUT of her life, she just wants to CONTROL him. "I need to be the boss")

The thing is, she could have gotten him out of her life at any point -- by leaving FM. And, if the rest of the band had been united that they wanted Lindsey out, they could have taken their vote at any time and then just kicked him out. (they claim now this is how it works- majority rules).

So the fact they hadn't done it suggests everyone else was ok with him, or able and willing to tolerate him, until one day Stevie wasn't. And then she leveraged her ability to put bums in seats (no one disputes she has the most ability for this) to force the rest of them to kick him out. Because that's what she did. She forced them. Me, or him. Now, could they have sided with him? Sure thing. And, just because they sided with her doesn't necessarily mean they agree with her FEELINGS about him.(Chris did a whole album and tour with him. In the documentary of making that Mick is all huggy and lovey with him, as is Chris). That's the point. She played on their greed and they fell in line as she knew they would. They sold him out for a buck.

Bands have members come and go. That's FM legacy. But the down and dirty, sneaky grubby way this has played out is shameful.

Ooh boy... so much reaching in this tirade. I guess there is no reason to remind you that all of the above is based on speculation that you have somehow twisted into fact in your mind. Even Lindsey's legal complaint didn't implicate Stevie the way you did. Of course this was a united band decision (because, um, it is a band). Everyone probably had different emotions about it, but they came to a resolution very, very quickly, which means there probably wasn't much reason for equivocation.

I guess if there is one side effect of the rise of "fake news" and conservative media, it is the tragic elevation of conspiracy theories into mainstream discourse. Everything is a conspiracy now (despite the fact that not a single conspiracy has ever been proven as fact) and everyone feels that every move is based on some evil shadow organization with malicious intent. So, by all means, let your imagination run wild with Stevie conspiracy theories. You know... there must be a reason why she only wears black...

[SteveMacD]

At the end of the day, Lindsey didn’t sign off on the tour. Sure, he verbally agreed in principle to do it, but something was holding him back from signing off.

Mike broke into “Johnny B. Goode” last night. I think that’s the type of deviation from the script that’s been missing for them. I can’t imagine a scenario where breaking into Chuck Berry wouldn’t make Mick and John’s day.

Lindsey will deviate from his setlist occasionally at his solo shows, at the end of the show, but never with Fleetwood Mac.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Mike broke into “Johnny B. Goode” last night. I think that’s the type of deviation from the script that’s been missing for them. I can’t imagine a scenario where breaking into Chuck Berry wouldn’t make Mick and John’s day.

I read that. His birthday was on 10/18 and CB was from St. Louis. It was a nice nod from Mike. I hope someone caught that on video.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I read that. His birthday was on 10/18 and CB was from St. Louis. It was a nice nod from Mike. I hope someone caught that on video.

It was also Tom’s birthday and that was the first song Mike ever played with Tom.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

It was also Tom’s birthday and that was the first song Mike ever played with Tom.

I didn't know that! Fun fact.

[trackaghost]

The sexism towards Stevie can be staggering but it also bothers me when people call Kristen Buckingham, who at the end of the day no one here really knows, a "gold digger." I really don't understand what she's done that deserves such vitriol.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

The sexism towards Stevie can be staggering but it also bothers me when people call Kristen Buckingham, who at the end of the day no one here really knows, a "gold digger." I really don't understand what she's done that deserves such vitriol.

It was more of a wise crack than anything. It wasn't said with vitriol but more of a raised eyebrow.

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

The sexism towards Stevie can be staggering but it also bothers me when people call Kristen Buckingham, who at the end of the day no one here really knows, a "gold digger." I really don't understand what she's done that deserves such vitriol.

The first person who did that but with other words was Stevie, so what would you expect of the gold dust sniffers?

[singertobe]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

The sexism towards Stevie can be staggering but it also bothers me when people call Kristen Buckingham, who at the end of the day no one here really knows, a "gold digger." I really don't understand what she's done that deserves such vitriol.

I adore Kristen. She's what a spouse should be. Faithful and supportive all day.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Ooh boy... so much reaching in this tirade. I guess there is no reason to remind you that all of the above is based on speculation that you have somehow twisted into fact in your mind. Even Lindsey's legal complaint didn't implicate Stevie the way you did. Of course this was a united band decision (because, um, it is a band). Everyone probably had different emotions about it, but they came to a resolution very, very quickly, which means there probably wasn't much reason for equivocation.

I guess if there is one side effect of the rise of "fake news" and conservative media, it is the tragic elevation of conspiracy theories into mainstream discourse. Everything is a conspiracy now (despite the fact that not a single conspiracy has ever been proven as fact) and everyone feels that every move is based on some evil shadow organization with malicious intent. So, by all means, let your imagination run wild with Stevie conspiracy theories. You know... there must be a reason why she only wears black...

Interesting when discussion becomes labeled a tirade when someone has a different opinion. Now, if I'd engaged in name-calling of people on this board, that would be different.

I've also never speculated on the politics of anyone else on this forum, and the fact that someone speculates on mine, and then insinuates I am a conservative is the funniest thing I've ever read on here. Thanks for the laugh!

In short, it is indeed a fact that the band did not fire Lindsey until now. If you have evidence to the contrary, please share. Ugly word or not, that's what they did.

It was stated by the band that Stevie suggested Mike to replace Lindsey. Simple reading of band interviews/watching of band interviews on tv should suffice.

It was stated by Mick, Mike, Stevie and perhaps others as well in the tv interviews and Rolling Stone audio interviews that Mike was contacted about replacing Lindsey within days after Musicares. Again, basic reading and listening of recordings of the band.

If we are going to claim anyone is turning rumors into facts, let's consider the rumors that Lindsey was physically abusive to Stevie, that Lindsey definitely did something horrible the night of Musicares, that Lindsey was abusive to Stevie during SYW..... you can't have it both ways.

No one loved Stevie and her work more than I did. If you had told me years ago that I'd come down on Lindsey's side in a spat between them I'd have thought you were nuts.

For every posting on this board about Stevie screwing over Lindsey there's an equivalent post about Lindsey abusing Stevie, about Lindsey having no talent, about Lindsey's wife being a gold-digger, about Lindsey and his wife not really living together.....etc etc. For every post about Lindsey getting screwed there's at least two posts about how Stevie is perfect, all her songs are perfect, and gleeful comments about how many more solo albums she sold than Lindsey. In other words, one person's trash is another person's treasure. Those who can't stand a single criticism of Stevie do their fair share of reaching and fact-twisting.

[Storms123]

It's really tough to be a FM fan right now (at least for me) and it's tough actually to come to this board sometimes.
I am really struggling to get behind this incarnation of the group. It has nothing to do with the talent of this group (new and old), but everything to do with the lies, half truths and misinformation that was dispersed at the time we heard LB wasn't touring with them. That, coupled with the lack of regard by the band towards Lindsey's contribution to the FM in their statements was a slap in the face to FM fans of the Rumours 5 lineup. From my perspective, Lindsey and Stevie are bat $h*t crazy FOR and ABOUT each other period. And probably just a bit artistically nuts in general (that's not meant to be negative, misogny, sexist, btw) And that's not to say they are pining away for each other, because I don't mean that and I really don't believe that. Do I think there's love left here? YES. But it's more about how both of their careers would not have happened without each other, and I really do believe that!
I want to thank both BombaySapphires and BWBOY for their recent posts. Really nice to see open and differing views and opinions aired it a way that's not biting or cutting to "either side" but really encompassing the views of all. So nice to read--thank you .

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

It's really tough to be a FM fan right now (at least for me) and it's tough actually to come to this board sometimes.
I am really struggling to get behind this incarnation of the group. It has nothing to do with the talent of this group (new and old), but everything to do with the lies, half truths and misinformation that was dispersed at the time we heard LB wasn't touring with them.

What Mick said lines up with what's in Lindsey's lawsuit. Fleetwood Mac hasn't been talking because they were advised not to. We really still only have one side of the story.
It would be great if we could all get along but I think it's too little, too late to start taking the high road now.

[jwd]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Interesting when discussion becomes labeled a tirade when someone has a different opinion. Now, if I'd engaged in name-calling of people on this board, that would be different.

I've also never speculated on the politics of anyone else on this forum, and the fact that someone speculates on mine, and then insinuates I am a conservative is the funniest thing I've ever read on here. Thanks for the laugh!

In short, it is indeed a fact that the band did not fire Lindsey until now. If you have evidence to the contrary, please share. Ugly word or not, that's what they did.

It was stated by the band that Stevie suggested Mike to replace Lindsey. Simple reading of band interviews/watching of band interviews on tv should suffice.

It was stated by Mick, Mike, Stevie and perhaps others as well in the tv interviews and Rolling Stone audio interviews that Mike was contacted about replacing Lindsey within days after Musicares. Again, basic reading and listening of recordings of the band.

If we are going to claim anyone is turning rumors into facts, let's consider the rumors that Lindsey was physically abusive to Stevie, that Lindsey definitely did something horrible the night of Musicares, that Lindsey was abusive to Stevie during SYW..... you can't have it both ways.

No one loved Stevie and her work more than I did. If you had told me years ago that I'd come down on Lindsey's side in a spat between them I'd have thought you were nuts.

For every posting on this board about Stevie screwing over Lindsey there's an equivalent post about Lindsey abusing Stevie, about Lindsey having no talent, about Lindsey's wife being a gold-digger, about Lindsey and his wife not really living together.....etc etc. For every post about Lindsey getting screwed there's at least two posts about how Stevie is perfect, all her songs are perfect, and gleeful comments about how many more solo albums she sold than Lindsey. In other words, one person's trash is another person's treasure. Those who can't stand a single criticism of Stevie do their fair share of reaching and fact-twisting.

Are you a lawyer? You're good, really good!

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

I've also never speculated on the politics of anyone else on this forum, and the fact that someone speculates on mine, and then insinuates I am a conservative is the funniest thing I've ever read on here. Thanks for the laugh!

Is English your second language? I'm not trying to be shady... I'm just trying to justify what I perceive to be poor reading comprehension on your part. And if English is your second language, I totally understand why you're not quite getting my point. My point is that the rise of conservative media has elevated stupid conspiracy theories to the mainstream. I did not call you conservative.

In short, it is indeed a fact that the band did not fire Lindsey until now. If you have evidence to the contrary, please share. Ugly word or not, that's what they did.

Stop it. Now you're just delving into semantics. When Mick demurs that "firing" is an "ugly word," he is not denying that Fleetwood Mac fired Lindsey. Mick was trying to come up with a less caustic term for what happened... which was that Lindsey was fired. He never, ever said or implied that Lindsey left on his own accord.

It was stated by the band that Stevie suggested Mike to replace Lindsey. Simple reading of band interviews/watching of band interviews on tv should suffice.

So once they decided they couldn't move forward with Lindsey, what were they supposed to do? Just gaze at their navels until a random guitar player fell from the sky? Of course they probably had Options B, C, D, E, etc. when they finally decided to pull the plug on Lindsey. That's just common sense.

It was stated by Mick, Mike, Stevie and perhaps others as well in the tv interviews and Rolling Stone audio interviews that Mike was contacted about replacing Lindsey within days after Musicares. Again, basic reading and listening of recordings of the band.

...and your point is...? What does that have to do with your narrative about everyone being greedy and Stevie holding everyone hostage and acting like a diva and conspiring to get out from under Lindsey's shadow?

If we are going to claim anyone is turning rumors into facts, let's consider the rumors that Lindsey was physically abusive to Stevie, that Lindsey definitely did something horrible the night of Musicares, that Lindsey was abusive to Stevie during SYW..... you can't have it both ways.

We have Carol Ann's account. We have some degree of corroboration regarding Lindsey's anger management issues from Ken Caillat (and Richard Dashut too, I think?). We have Mick's account in his book about Lindsey chasing Stevie around Christine's cul de sac after he announced his departure. There are multiple accounts of the NZ show where Lindsey chucked his guitar at Stevie. Sure, you can be a Lindsey apologist, and that is your right. But the portrait of St. Lindsey that emerges after these accounts of his behavior does not exactly help to negate those allegations.

For every posting on this board about Stevie screwing over Lindsey there's an equivalent post about Lindsey abusing Stevie, about Lindsey having no talent, about Lindsey's wife being a gold-digger, about Lindsey and his wife not really living together.....etc etc. For every post about Lindsey getting screwed there's at least two posts about how Stevie is perfect, all her songs are perfect, and gleeful comments about how many more solo albums she sold than Lindsey. In other words, one person's trash is another person's treasure. Those who can't stand a single criticism of Stevie do their fair share of reaching and fact-twisting.

Please show me one post by anyone that "Stevie is perfect, all her songs are perfect." I just happen to think that criticism has to be backed by more than just wacky conspiracy theories and connecting dots that are located in different time zones. If you are criticizing her work or her performance, it's all legit as long as you have observed it with your own eyes/ears. But formulating such strong stances about the character of someone you don't really know based on a limited dataset is naïve at best.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

We have Carol Ann's account. We have some degree of corroboration regarding Lindsey's anger management issues from Ken Caillat (and Richard Dashut too, I think?). We have Mick's account in his book about Lindsey chasing Stevie around Christine's cul de sac after he announced his departure. There are multiple accounts of the NZ show where Lindsey chucked his guitar at Stevie. Sure, you can be a Lindsey apologist, and that is your right. But the portrait of St. Lindsey that emerges after these accounts of his behavior does not exactly help to negate those allegations.

Okay. Stop. None of this played any part in Lindsey’s dismissal. At all.

Stevie is probably the queen of jumping on any trend, and I have zero doubt that in the Me Too era it would be all too easy for her to throw Lindsey under the bus if there was any merit to the allegations, especially now.