Lindsey discusses his firing (Rolling Stone)

[StevieandChris]

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

She's acted like quite an asshole throughout her life, as has Lindsey, and yet in the end it wasn't Lindsey who behaved like a vengeful child to get her pushed out of a band that she's been part of for decades.

Oh no question that she is an ass too. She reached her breaking point before he reached his, that is all. My whole point in all of this mess is it is NOT JUST HER. And this article proves he did contribute to his firing even if you want to downplay his actions.

[dreamsunwind]

Originally Posted by StevieandChris

Oh no question that she is an ass too. She reached her breaking point before he reached his, that is all. My whole point in all of this mess is it is NOT JUST HER. And this article proves he did contribute to his firing even if you want to downplay his actions.

That's where we disagree. I think that she never should have done that. Lindsey probably reached his own personal breaking point with Stevie when she refused to record with her band, but he (nor any remotely level-headed person) never tried to do probably the ugliest thing you could to do someone in that position and have her forced out from her band of 40 years simply because she was just annoying him so much. Even if you LOATHE that person, think about their family who let you into their home, kids who called you 'aunt' and 'queen'; or their legacy which involved a lot of your own beautiful music in that 40 years of work, or simply their humanity-- does this person really deserve THAT? To be able to still do that is a level of low I never thought ANYONE in this group could reach. Whether she was mad about his smirk or his rant about Rhiannon playing or whatever else, theres just something uniquely awful about doing that to a person. I honestly can't think of a worse thing to have done to him aside from separating him from his children. It's an awful, ugly thing to do.

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

That's where we disagree. I think that she never should have done that. Lindsey probably reached his own personal breaking point with Stevie when she refused to record with her band, but he (nor any remotely level-headed person) never tried to do probably the ugliest thing you could to do someone in that position and have her forced out from her band of 40 years simply because she was just annoying him so much. Even if you LOATHE that person, think about their family who let you into their home, kids who called you 'aunt' and 'queen'; or their legacy which involved a lot of your own beautiful music in that 40 years of work, or simply their humanity-- does this person really deserve THAT? To be able to still do that is a level of low I never thought ANYONE in this group could reach. Whether she was mad about his smirk or his rant about Rhiannon playing or whatever else, theres just something uniquely awful about doing that to a person. I honestly can't think of a worse thing to have done to him aside from separating him from his children. It's an awful, ugly thing to do.

Exactly. I just feel sick inside. How could Stevie be so selfish and cruel?

[Angel75]

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

That's where we disagree. I think that she never should have done that. Lindsey probably reached his own personal breaking point with Stevie when she refused to record with her band, but he (nor any remotely level-headed person) never tried to do probably the ugliest thing you could to do someone in that position and have her forced out from her band of 40 years simply because she was just annoying him so much. Even if you LOATHE that person, think about their family who let you into their home, kids who called you 'aunt' and 'queen'; or their legacy which involved a lot of your own beautiful music in that 40 years of work, or simply their humanity-- does this person really deserve THAT? To be able to still do that is a level of low I never thought ANYONE in this group could reach. Whether she was mad about his smirk or his rant about Rhiannon playing or whatever else, theres just something uniquely awful about doing that to a person. I honestly can't think of a worse thing to have done to him aside from separating him from his children. It's an awful, ugly thing to do.

Exactly...I dont see even if you are a hard core SN fan ...that so many people writing here were ....you can then justify her behavior...it was simply an unjustified, awful thing for her to do to him...

[StevieandChris]

Originally Posted by Angel75

Exactly...I dont see even if you are a hard core SN fan ...that so many people writing here were ....you can then justify her behavior...it was simply an unjustified, awful thing for her to do to him...

We’ll agree to disagree that it wasn’t justified. The only people who can decide that are in the band. And they made their decision.

[Angel75]

Originally Posted by StevieandChris

We’ll agree to disagree that it wasn’t justified. The only people who can decide that are in the band. And they made their decision.

Just so I am clear, you hand on your heart think what he did at Musicares meant he should be fired from the band?
Not talking about anything from previous years, you genuinely think it was reasonable?

[StevieandChris]

Originally Posted by Angel75

Just so I am clear, you hand on your heart think what he did at Musicares meant he should be fired from the band?
Not talking about anything from previous years, you genuinely think it was reasonable?

You cannot separate it from the previous years though. That’s the point. It has been BUILDING. This was not a one-off.

So yes, his firing was justified.

And like I have said many times before, if they had fired Stevie in 1987 when she was a complete mess, or after she did not want to record, her firing would have been justified too. But that didn’t happen.

Years later, this did.

[secondhandchain]

Originally Posted by StevieandChris

You cannot separate it from the previous years though. That’s the point. It has been BUILDING. This was not a one-off.

So yes, his firing was justified.

And like I have said many times before, if they had fired Stevie in 1987 when she was a complete mess, or after she did not want to record, her firing would have been justified too. But that didn’t happen.

Years later, this did.

Your username says all we need to know about your views on this. You obviously hate LB. I on the other hand ADORED SN (since 1977) and the rest of the band until two years ago when she started acting like a total D bag. There I said it.

[TheWildHeart67]

When I was 17, I would have been really worked-up about all these happenings.
Hell, even in my 20's.
But at 51 years old, I just am not as star-obsessed about behind the scenes drama, and my life doesn't revolve around the personal issues of the band members of Fleetwood Mac, or any other celebrity.
I could care less.
Their music as a group and as solo artists provided the soundtrack of my life, and I will always love the music.
It will always be about the music for me.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by TheWildHeart67

When I was 17, I would have been really worked-up about all these happenings.
Hell, even in my 20's.
But at 51 years old, I just am not as star-obsessed about behind the scenes drama, and my life doesn't revolve around the personal issues of the band members of Fleetwood Mac, or any other celebrity.
I could care less.
Their music as a group and as solo artists provided the soundtrack of my life, and I will always love the music.
It will always be about the music for me.

Amen! I was 16 when Lindsey left the band in 1987, and I was devastated. Tango in the Night was released and I was planning to see them live for what would have been my first concert ever, and then there it was in USA Today- Lindsey Buckingham left FM just before their tour started. I was so upset, even pi$$ed off because Lindsey kept my dream from coming true. Even when Billy and Rick joined and the tour went on, I didn't see them. But then the concert reviews started coming in and I realized there could be a FM after Lindsey, and I got to see that for myself on their next tour. And even though I loved the Behind the Mask lineup, I was thrilled when Lindsey returned for the Dance.

The way I see it, while it's disappointing Lindsey was fired, the fact is we were lucky to have this FM back from 1996-2016. And I'll be on board if/when Lindsey returns for a final tour, but I'm still going to enjoy FM now.

[StevieandChris]

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

That's where we disagree. I think that she never should have done that. Lindsey probably reached his own personal breaking point with Stevie when she refused to record with her band, but he (nor any remotely level-headed person) never tried to do probably the ugliest thing you could to do someone in that position and have her forced out from her band of 40 years simply because she was just annoying him so much. Even if you LOATHE that person, think about their family who let you into their home, kids who called you 'aunt' and 'queen'; or their legacy which involved a lot of your own beautiful music in that 40 years of work, or simply their humanity-- does this person really deserve THAT? To be able to still do that is a level of low I never thought ANYONE in this group could reach. Whether she was mad about his smirk or his rant about Rhiannon playing or whatever else, theres just something uniquely awful about doing that to a person. I honestly can't think of a worse thing to have done to him aside from separating him from his children. It's an awful, ugly thing to do.

We’ll definitely agree to disagree. He chose his actions too.

[In Your Dreams]

https://media.giphy.com/media/Ob7p7lDT99cd2/giphy.gif

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by StevieandChris

Oh no question that she is an ass too. She reached her breaking point before he reached his, that is all. My whole point in all of this mess is it is NOT JUST HER. And this article proves he did contribute to his firing even if you want to downplay his actions.

he was a total sh&t to her for a long time in the past. then he was gone for a decade and then eventually when she hit bottom and her solo career was at its nadir they made up (in the 90s) and got the band back together again.

But it's been 20 years since then. And what is in the DR doc that is so bad?? He went out of his way to be nice to her. He tells her that her lyrics could be tighter? Guess what, that's a producer's JOB. Jimmy told her the same thing in the albums he did with her. She got too big for her britches and fired him for it eventually. No one tells ME what to do. The reason she loved working with Dave Stewart was because he never told her no. The result? Songs that are hideously too long and repetitive (Lady, anyone?) or just incoherent (Mabel Normand, anyone?) or lazy (I Don't Care, Cheaper Than Free). A producer is supposed to turn your demos into actual radio friendly songs.
She showed up one day with her assistant/pitbull to double team him and pounce on him for not signing a contract-- a contract that was inappropriate to what they were doing. Watch it again.

The point is, the events of Musicares were not enough to warrant her actions, especially given how much worse all the behavior was in the past.

Part of her problem is she has been surrounded by ass kissers for too long. "How dare they treat you this way?" has been drilled into her head. She's said people like Don Henley were her role models, and that Don taught her "how to be a rock star" -- demanding the presidential suite etc. Azoff encouraged and enabled more of that. Hell Petty even hired her and her entourage their own private jet to follow him around on tour.

Watch the old Rosebud films-- where she's backstage high as a kite goofing around with the road crew. She tells her label guy that she's hanging out with the crew because "they're soooo much better than the BAND" she says the word dripping with derision. She's a brat. She was even then. She just knows how to bs everyone with her public face.

[dreamsunwind]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

he was a total sh&t to her for a long time in the past. then he was gone for a decade and then eventually when she hit bottom and her solo career was at its nadir they made up (in the 90s) and got the band back together again.

But it's been 20 years since then. And what is in the DR doc that is so bad?? He went out of his way to be nice to her. He tells her that her lyrics could be tighter? Guess what, that's a producer's JOB. Jimmy told her the same thing in the albums he did with her. She got too big for her britches and fired him for it eventually. No one tells ME what to do. The reason she loved working with Dave Stewart was because he never told her no. The result? Songs that are hideously too long and repetitive (Lady, anyone?) or just incoherent (Mabel Normand, anyone?) or lazy (I Don't Care, Cheaper Than Free). A producer is supposed to turn your demos into actual radio friendly songs.
She showed up one day with her assistant/pitbull to double team him and pounce on him for not signing a contract-- a contract that was inappropriate to what they were doing. Watch it again.

The point is, the events of Musicares were not enough to warrant her actions, especially given how much worse all the behavior was in the past.

Part of her problem is she has been surrounded by ass kissers for too long. "How dare they treat you this way?" has been drilled into her head. She's said people like Don Henley were her role models, and that Don taught her "how to be a rock star" -- demanding the presidential suite etc. Azoff encouraged and enabled more of that. Hell Petty even hired her and her entourage their own private jet to follow him around on tour.

Watch the old Rosebud films-- where she's backstage high as a kite goofing around with the road crew. She tells her label guy that she's hanging out with the crew because "they're soooo much better than the BAND" she says the word dripping with derision. She's a brat. She was even then. She just knows how to bs everyone with her public face.

Yup. And even after she and Jimmy patched things up as friends, they never worked together again. Same with Rick Olsen. He talked about how the RAL album was very rough and it took a while to be friends again afterwards. And again, they didn't work together anymore after. The SA producer she also had a falling out with. Stevie is a textbook diva. She doesn't like being critiqued and doesn't want to deal with people who give her anything that remotely resembles a hard time.

[Storms123]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

he was a total sh&t to her for a long time in the past. then he was gone for a decade and then eventually when she hit bottom and her solo career was at its nadir they made up (in the 90s) and got the band back together again.

But it's been 20 years since then. And what is in the DR doc that is so bad?? He went out of his way to be nice to her. He tells her that her lyrics could be tighter? Guess what, that's a producer's JOB. Jimmy told her the same thing in the albums he did with her. She got too big for her britches and fired him for it eventually. No one tells ME what to do. The reason she loved working with Dave Stewart was because he never told her no. The result? Songs that are hideously too long and repetitive (Lady, anyone?) or just incoherent (Mabel Normand, anyone?) or lazy (I Don't Care, Cheaper Than Free). A producer is supposed to turn your demos into actual radio friendly songs.
She showed up one day with her assistant/pitbull to double team him and pounce on him for not signing a contract-- a contract that was inappropriate to what they were doing. Watch it again.

The point is, the events of Musicares were not enough to warrant her actions, especially given how much worse all the behavior was in the past.

Part of her problem is she has been surrounded by ass kissers for too long. "How dare they treat you this way?" has been drilled into her head. She's said people like Don Henley were her role models, and that Don taught her "how to be a rock star" -- demanding the presidential suite etc. Azoff encouraged and enabled more of that. Hell Petty even hired her and her entourage their own private jet to follow him around on tour.

Watch the old Rosebud films-- where she's backstage high as a kite goofing around with the road crew. She tells her label guy that she's hanging out with the crew because "they're soooo much better than the BAND" she says the word dripping with derision. She's a brat. She was even then. She just knows how to bs everyone with her public face.

I completely agree with you--I've watched and rematched DR multiple times, unless the "bad stuff" hit the cutting room floor, nothing in that looked remotely hostile.