What happens if Christine exits?

[Angel75]

Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse

You're very likely wrong. I just met someone who is in the Fleetwood Mac inner circle and he told me that the band is planning to record new material very soon. Fingers crossed ...

Sugar Mouse - I am calling your bluff.
On the "Let me teach you about real reality" thread you questioned repeatedly exactly the facts on Lindsey's firing...we mentioned the day after Musicares video of LB and his BuckVie musicians accounts of what happened that hugely contrast the version/ reason we got from Mick and Stevie but you still didn't choose to believe what is pretty clearly the truth.
Surely this person in the FM inner circle you just met would have told you the facts, care to share this with the group?!!!

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by Angel75

Sugar Mouse - I am calling your bluff.
On the "Let me teach you about real reality" thread you questioned repeatedly exactly the facts on Lindsey's firing...we mentioned the day after Musicares video of LB and his BuckVie musicians accounts of what happened that hugely contrast the version/ reason we got from Mick and Stevie but you still didn't choose to believe what is pretty clearly the truth.
Surely this person in the FM inner circle you just met would have told you the facts, care to share this with the group?!!!

Does it really matter? I mean truly? Nothing anyone else says will make you change your mind about the situation, so why bother trying. Besides, you have every right to feel the way you do about Lindsey's firing. But let's really, truly be honest for a second- the key thing here that made some people angry is that FM fired Lindsey. Regardless of the reason, that is what is upsetting people. Let's say an inside source said Lindsey behaved inappropriately at a band meeting, and that was why he was fired. Would that make a difference to you? Probably not, and that's your right. I imagine some of the responses would be "but Lindsey sacrificed the last 40 years of his life to make FM a success, so they should deal with it instead of stabbing him in the back." And that's their right to feel that way. I disagree, and there's probably nothing anyone could say that would change my mind, either. What's clear to you is not clear to me, and what's clear to me is not clear to you

[DreamIsOver]

Recording new music and putting something out before the tour starts is their only shot at possibly changing the narrative for this tour and giving interviewers something else to focus on besides Lindsey's removal, not that he isn't going to cast a shadow over everything they do evermore.

If I were Lindsey, I'd counter by get a full backing band together with a couple of other guitarists, cherry pick the best songs from UTS, GOS, and SWS, work up fleshed out full band arraignments, record them and put that out as a killer new album/best of hybrid and blow FM out of the water.

[Angel75]

Originally Posted by bwboy

Does it really matter? I mean truly? Nothing anyone else says will make you change your mind about the situation, so why bother trying. Besides, you have every right to feel the way you do about Lindsey's firing. But let's really, truly be honest for a second- the key thing here that made some people angry is that FM fired Lindsey. Regardless of the reason, that is what is upsetting people. Let's say an inside source said Lindsey behaved inappropriately at a band meeting, and that was why he was fired. Would that make a difference to you? Probably not, and that's your right. I imagine some of the responses would be "but Lindsey sacrificed the last 40 years of his life to make FM a success, so they should deal with it instead of stabbing him in the back." And that's their right to feel that way. I disagree, and there's probably nothing anyone could say that would change my mind, either. What's clear to you is not clear to me, and what's clear to me is not clear to you

OF COURSE IT MATTERS. I want to know the truth. I am not one-eyed about this situation but am basing my Andre and sadness on the facts and evidence that Lindsey was fired without wanting to delay the tour against his choice or doing. Firstly, he knows first hand that both the McVies don't have their health on their side and probably can't wait until Nov 2019, that excuse just makes no sense. Nor would he tour for that long anyway usually. But you are wrong if Lindsey did behave really inappropriately, I would certainly not be jumping to his defence and would accept his firing as necessary. I try to look at this situation fairly and with the truthful evidence in front of us. I have no alliance to any one band member....I liked them all, with the exception of Mick really, equally.

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by bwboy

Does it really matter? I mean truly? Nothing anyone else says will make you change your mind about the situation, so why bother trying. Besides, you have every right to feel the way you do about Lindsey's firing. But let's really, truly be honest for a second- the key thing here that made some people angry is that FM fired Lindsey. Regardless of the reason, that is what is upsetting people. Let's say an inside source said Lindsey behaved inappropriately at a band meeting, and that was why he was fired. Would that make a difference to you? Probably not, and that's your right. I imagine some of the responses would be "but Lindsey sacrificed the last 40 years of his life to make FM a success, so they should deal with it instead of stabbing him in the back." And that's their right to feel that way. I disagree, and there's probably nothing anyone could say that would change my mind, either. What's clear to you is not clear to me, and what's clear to me is not clear to you

It's like trying to make Stevie's fans understand that she was the sole reason Lindsey was fired because she wanted to punish him. I don't need to imagine the responses, because I have already read them: "but she sells arenas, she's the hit maker!"

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by button-lip

It's like trying to make Stevie's fans understand that she was the sole reason Lindsey was fired because she wanted to punish him. I don't need to imagine the responses, because I have already read them: "but she sells arenas, she's the hit maker!"

You are right about that- I don't believe Stevie wanted Lindsey fired just to punish him. I just don't. I don't think she was jealous Christine and Lindsey made an album without her because she declined to work on it with them. And I don't believe she was jealous they toured together without her around the same time she was touring.

Here's what I do think: she never wanted to record with Lindsey again, and sometime later she gave the ultimatum it was either her or him. The band chose Stevie, and I understand why- Mick and John get their income from touring. When Buck/Vie toured, they didn't use Mick and John. And their tour was not a big moneymaker, anyway. So Mick and John have a choice: kick Stevie out and record an album as FM and go on a small venue tour, or kick Lindsey out and possibly record an album as FM with Neil and Mike and go on a large venue tour.

Mick and John have the right to earn an income. They may have a lot of money, but they can't depend on savings- they have to continue making money just like most people. That's kind of why the Rolling Stones and U2 and other bands continue touring- those yachts and private colleges and mansions cost a lot of money. That's why Mick and John don't just retire to leave their legacy intact. Even Stevie, Lindsey, and Christine tour for the money, and being the songwriters, they make a lot more money than Mick and John, but even they use these tours to pay for their mansions, families, etc.

Is it unfortunate they couldn't make it work? Yes. But I understand why the decision was made. It was purely smart business and economical. I have no right to tell Mick and John they should retire because they fired Lindsey. You and anyone else have every right to protest, express your frustration, etc. Don't go to future FM concerts, don't buy any more FM albums, whether EPs or cds or greatest hits or live compilations. Likewise, I and anyone else have every right to give this new line up a chance. To see them live in concert. I don't feel anger at the band, and I still like Rumours and the white album and Tusk. And I know Lindsey will release cds and tour, and I'll buy his CD and possibly see him in concert too, especially since he's no longer in FM.

Button-lip, I know you said not to say "but she sells arenas," but I really do think that's what it came down to. And I know you and I disagree on this, but I really wanted to write sincerely to you about why I am able to accept this new line up of FM. If Stevie had been fired, I would have been fine with that. And if someone had replaced her, depending on who it was, I would have been just as intrigued, especially if Ann Wilson or Pat Benatar or even Belinda Carlisle had replaced her. I mean, can you imagine?!? I would totally have been there! Actually, FM hiring Neil Finn was smart on a couple of levels, the main one being he's pretty non-threatening. What I mean by that, some people may love him, many have at least heard of him or know his song Don't Dream It's Over, but few hate the guy! He's not polarizing like some other singers might have been.

Button-lip, I would love for your thoughts on some of what I said. Do you think my theory about why FM kept Stevie over Lindsey could be true? What are your thoughts about a FM touring without Stevie, and should they have tried to replace her if they had fired her?

[Storms123]

Originally Posted by bwboy

You are right about that- I don't believe Stevie wanted Lindsey fired just to punish him. I just don't. I don't think she was jealous Christine and Lindsey made an album without her because she declined to work on it with them. And I don't believe she was jealous they toured together without her around the same time she was touring.

Here's what I do think: she never wanted to record with Lindsey again, and sometime later she gave the ultimatum it was either her or him. The band chose Stevie, and I understand why- Mick and John get their income from touring. When Buck/Vie toured, they didn't use Mick and John. And their tour was not a big moneymaker, anyway. So Mick and John have a choice: kick Stevie out and record an album as FM and go on a small venue tour, or kick Lindsey out and possibly record an album as FM with Neil and Mike and go on a large venue tour.

Mick and John have the right to earn an income. They may have a lot of money, but they can't depend on savings- they have to continue making money just like most people. That's kind of why the Rolling Stones and U2 and other bands continue touring- those yachts and private colleges and mansions cost a lot of money. That's why Mick and John don't just retire to leave their legacy intact. Even Stevie, Lindsey, and Christine tour for the money, and being the songwriters, they make a lot more money than Mick and John, but even they use these tours to pay for their mansions, families, etc.

Is it unfortunate they couldn't make it work? Yes. But I understand why the decision was made. It was purely smart business and economical. I have no right to tell Mick and John they should retire because they fired Lindsey. You and anyone else have every right to protest, express your frustration, etc. Don't go to future FM concerts, don't buy any more FM albums, whether EPs or cds or greatest hits or live compilations. Likewise, I and anyone else have every right to give this new line up a chance. To see them live in concert. I don't feel anger at the band, and I still like Rumours and the white album and Tusk. And I know Lindsey will release cds and tour, and I'll buy his CD and possibly see him in concert too, especially since he's no longer in FM.

Button-lip, I know you said not to say "but she sells arenas," but I really do think that's what it came down to. And I know you and I disagree on this, but I really wanted to write sincerely to you about why I am able to accept this new line up of FM. If Stevie had been fired, I would have been fine with that. And if someone had replaced her, depending on who it was, I would have been just as intrigued, especially if Ann Wilson or Pat Benatar or even Belinda Carlisle had replaced her. I mean, can you imagine?!? I would totally have been there! Actually, FM hiring Neil Finn was smart on a couple of levels, the main one being he's pretty non-threatening. What I mean by that, some people may love him, many have at least heard of him or know his song Don't Dream It's Over, but few hate the guy! He's not polarizing like some other singers might have been.

Button-lip, I would love for your thoughts on some of what I said. Do you think my theory about why FM kept Stevie over Lindsey could be true? What are your thoughts about a FM touring without Stevie, and should they have tried to replace her if they had fired her?

There’s likely a lot of truth in what you say. I, for one, would have a hell of a lot more respect for the band, if they said it. Instead, if there’s any element of truth to the above, they are lying, likely to protect her, her image and how she would be perceived if they just said “she can’t work with him anymore”.

[Dr.Brown]

I think we're on the same page here - this was purely a financial decision as far as Mick was concerned. That being said, I'm not interested in a new Stevie-centric Mac. That's what her solo tours are for.

With all sincerity, I'll say "break a leg" as this Post-Rumours band hits the road.

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by bwboy

You are right about that- I don't believe Stevie wanted Lindsey fired just to punish him. I just don't. I don't think she was jealous Christine and Lindsey made an album without her because she declined to work on it with them. And I don't believe she was jealous they toured together without her around the same time she was touring.

Here's what I do think: she never wanted to record with Lindsey again, and sometime later she gave the ultimatum it was either her or him. The band chose Stevie, and I understand why- Mick and John get their income from touring. When Buck/Vie toured, they didn't use Mick and John. And their tour was not a big moneymaker, anyway. So Mick and John have a choice: kick Stevie out and record an album as FM and go on a small venue tour, or kick Lindsey out and possibly record an album as FM with Neil and Mike and go on a large venue tour.

Mick and John have the right to earn an income. They may have a lot of money, but they can't depend on savings- they have to continue making money just like most people. That's kind of why the Rolling Stones and U2 and other bands continue touring- those yachts and private colleges and mansions cost a lot of money. That's why Mick and John don't just retire to leave their legacy intact. Even Stevie, Lindsey, and Christine tour for the money, and being the songwriters, they make a lot more money than Mick and John, but even they use these tours to pay for their mansions, families, etc.

Is it unfortunate they couldn't make it work? Yes. But I understand why the decision was made. It was purely smart business and economical. I have no right to tell Mick and John they should retire because they fired Lindsey. You and anyone else have every right to protest, express your frustration, etc. Don't go to future FM concerts, don't buy any more FM albums, whether EPs or cds or greatest hits or live compilations. Likewise, I and anyone else have every right to give this new line up a chance. To see them live in concert. I don't feel anger at the band, and I still like Rumours and the white album and Tusk. And I know Lindsey will release cds and tour, and I'll buy his CD and possibly see him in concert too, especially since he's no longer in FM.

Button-lip, I know you said not to say "but she sells arenas," but I really do think that's what it came down to. And I know you and I disagree on this, but I really wanted to write sincerely to you about why I am able to accept this new line up of FM. If Stevie had been fired, I would have been fine with that. And if someone had replaced her, depending on who it was, I would have been just as intrigued, especially if Ann Wilson or Pat Benatar or even Belinda Carlisle had replaced her. I mean, can you imagine?!? I would totally have been there! Actually, FM hiring Neil Finn was smart on a couple of levels, the main one being he's pretty non-threatening. What I mean by that, some people may love him, many have at least heard of him or know his song Don't Dream It's Over, but few hate the guy! He's not polarizing like some other singers might have been.

Button-lip, I would love for your thoughts on some of what I said. Do you think my theory about why FM kept Stevie over Lindsey could be true? What are your thoughts about a FM touring without Stevie, and should they have tried to replace her if they had fired her?

There you go! You don't believe it, and yet I was told that was the only reason. So, yeah, every one of us believe what we want to believe.

So, if it all comes down to Stevie's ultimátum, why aren't they just saying it? I mean, what's the big problem to just admit it? Isn't she powerful one in the band? They didn't say the real reason because they know what they did was wrong. If not, they would have said it. And if they may be playing on large venue, but so far they're empty...

Do you honestly believe there was a decision that needed to be made? Not at all. Lindsey was no threat to anyone on the band, less Stevie. I don't see this as a business and economical decision. Seriously? If that was the case, they would still be selling as any other tour, even more, and yet, these are probably the worst selling numbers in the story of the band. And really, I'm not the only one who's not giving Fakewood Mac a chance.

Are you gonna see Lindsey on his solo tour. Really? Because he was near you on his BuckVie tour and you didn't go to any of their concerts.

Well, easy to say you will continue supporting the band even if they fire Stevie when we ALL know that will never happen. EVER. EVER. EVER.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by button-lip

Are you gonna see Lindsey on his solo tour. Really? Because he was near you on his BuckVie tour and you didn't go to any of their concerts.

Well, easy to say you will continue supporting the band even if they fire Stevie when we ALL know that will never happen. EVER. EVER. EVER.

No, I didn't see Christine and Lindsey on tour- 3 hours and 4 1/2 hours was just too far for me. I also didn't see Stevie when she played 90 minutes away, either. But now that I know Lindsey won't be touring with FM, I would definitely plan to see him solo, depending on the location. And if I had known back then he wasn't going to be touring with FM this year, I would have seen him and Christine, but I don't think anybody saw this coming.

As far as supporting FM if Stevie were fired? You bet I would. Christine's songs are my favorite, so buying an album is a no-brainer for me. Seeing them in concert? That I would be 50/50. If they replaced Stevie with someone I liked, then 100% yes, I would go see them in concert. As far as supporting FM without Stevie, I bought Time LOL but I didn't like it, and I didn't go to the concerts, either. But I didn't talk badly about people who did go, and I didn't begrudge the band for making a living. I didn't say they should have retired when Stevie and Christine and Rick left the band, I just didn't have the desire to see them live anymore.

Why would I care if Stevie was fired? She's got her own career, she tours on her own all the time, and she refused to make a new album with FM. I would have been completely been fine if they fired her! I bought 2 copies of Buck/Vie, and she wasn't on it. I am never going to feel badly for a millionaire many times over who gets fired from a band whether it's Stevie or Lindsey. Just ain't gonna happen LOL! Sorry if you don't believe me. But I at least hope we have a better understanding for why we each feel the way we do. I feel like I get your pov better now, and I can understand it, even while we disagree. I hope you feel likewise.

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by bwboy

No, I didn't see Christine and Lindsey on tour- 3 hours and 4 1/2 hours was just too far for me. I also didn't see Stevie when she played 90 minutes away, either. But now that I know Lindsey won't be touring with FM, I would definitely plan to see him solo, depending on the location. And if I had known back then he wasn't going to be touring with FM this year, I would have seen him and Christine, but I don't think anybody saw this coming.

As far as supporting FM if Stevie were fired? You bet I would. Christine's songs are my favorite, so buying an album is a no-brainer for me. Seeing them in concert? That I would be 50/50. If they replaced Stevie with someone I liked, then 100% yes, I would go see them in concert. As far as supporting FM without Stevie, I bought Time LOL but I didn't like it, and I didn't go to the concerts, either. But I didn't talk badly about people who did go, and I didn't begrudge the band for making a living. I didn't say they should have retired when Stevie and Christine and Rick left the band, I just didn't have the desire to see them live anymore.

Why would I care if Stevie was fired? She's got her own career, she tours on her own all the time, and she refused to make a new album with FM. I would have been completely been fine if they fired her! I bought 2 copies of Buck/Vie, and she wasn't on it. I am never going to feel badly for a millionaire many times over who gets fired from a band whether it's Stevie or Lindsey. Just ain't gonna happen LOL! Sorry if you don't believe me. But I at least hope we have a better understanding for why we each feel the way we do. I feel like I get your pov better now, and I can understand it, even while we disagree. I hope you feel likewise.

Well, then you're a better person than me because you don't talk badly about anybody. Making a living? You're saying they're millionaires and at the same time they're "making a living"? You see? They don't need the money. They're millionaires, as you said. This was pure revenge, and that's why I (and many others here) don't feel inclined to wish them luck in whatever they do. That's why I am waiting for this tour to fail.

All of us know Stevie's place in the music industry. We all know she doesn't need FM, because she has her own career where she feels more comfortable and she tours all the time and sells arenas all the time and have fun all the time. So..... wouldn't have been wiser to leave the band if she didn't want to work with Lindsey anymore? But where's the fun there? Where's the revenge in leaving the band? Yeah, it was more satisfactory for her this way.

[Sugar Mouse]

Originally Posted by Angel75

Sugar Mouse - I am calling your bluff.
On the "Let me teach you about real reality" thread you questioned repeatedly exactly the facts on Lindsey's firing...we mentioned the day after Musicares video of LB and his BuckVie musicians accounts of what happened that hugely contrast the version/ reason we got from Mick and Stevie but you still didn't choose to believe what is pretty clearly the truth.
Surely this person in the FM inner circle you just met would have told you the facts, care to share this with the group?!!!

Sure. This person told me that Lindsey wanted to delay the tour until the end of 2019 and that Lindsey had become very frustrated with Stevie's unwillingness to record a new album. It sounded like Stevie was frustrated that Lindsey was backing out of the tour and Lindsey was frustrated that Stevie wouldn't record a studio album. Things came to a head at MusiCares and the rest is sad history for the band with Lindsey being fired. There were some other things he mentioned to me, but they're not appropriate to post here. It's always sad when a band with this much incredible history breaks up. As I mentioned before, he told me that we can expect new music from the new lineup possibly before the tour starts in October. My guess is that it will be a new song or EP, but he said that it all depends on how things go in rehearsals and whether quality new songs emerge.

[dreamsunwind]

Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse

Sure. This person told me that Lindsey wanted to delay the tour until the end of 2019 and that Lindsey had become very frustrated with Stevie's unwillingness to record a new album. It sounded like Stevie was frustrated that Lindsey was backing out of the tour and Lindsey was frustrated that Stevie wouldn't record a studio album. Things came to a head at MusiCares and the rest is sad history for the band with Lindsey being fired. There were some other things he mentioned to me, but they're not appropriate to post here. It's always sad when a band with this much incredible history breaks up. As I mentioned before, he told me that we can expect new music from the new lineup possibly before the tour starts in October. My guess is that it will be a new song or EP, but he said that it all depends on how things go in rehearsals and whether quality new songs emerge.

Lindsey was not asking to delay the tour.
Your "source" that most likely doesn't exist is telling you the band's story.

[Sugar Mouse]

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

Lindsey was not asking to delay the tour.
Your "source" that most likely doesn't exist is telling you the band's story.

Ok ... I can't say who it is but it's someone that has been working with both Lindsey and the rest of the band for decades. He knows the inner dynamics of what was going on. I'm just posting what he told me.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse

Ok ... I can't say who it is but it's someone that has been working with both Lindsey and the rest of the band for decades. He knows the inner dynamics of what was going on. I'm just posting what he told me.

Almost sound like you are talking to Ken Caillait on fb. He is not in inner circle but for years now sounds like he’s desperate to be back in. Maybe he’s hoping to finally be back in their good graces now and produce whatever they try to put together. But he was very clear his info comes through another source and is not first hand. He was given bands official statement to paddle and sell to people.