Would you welcome an extended era of FM without SN?

[AncientQueen]

Yes, LB and Mick Fleetwood, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unchai..._Cash_album%29

[SteveMacD]

As far as Lindsey was concerned, TITN and SYW started out his solo projects that morphed into Fleetwood Mac albums, and he crafted songs by the others to fit his creative vision for what was originally his project.

If he's being sincere, I think he wants a new Fleetwood Mac album to be more of a collaborative effort.

As for TITN, I think Christine's songs still sound timeless and amazing, and have faired better than the others'.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

As far as Lindsey was concerned, TITN and SYW started out his solo projects that morphed into Fleetwood Mac albums, and he crafted songs by the others to fit his creative vision for what was originally his project.

If he's being sincere, I think he wants a new Fleetwood Mac album to be more of a collaborative effort.

As for TITN, I think Christine's songs still sound timeless and amazing, and have faired better than the others'.

Christine's demos from TITN really kick ass. I like what LB added to them.

[iamnotafraid]

I'm getting a little sick of this fake drama.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but I think
they would make a better album without
Ms. Nicks.

If they can handle the financial loss of going
on without her - I say do it!

A more interesting drama would be of them
(the 4) announcing at a press conference that
they'd fired Stephanie.

[snroxman]

An era without Stevie? Absolutely! . At the moment she doesn't want to be there anyway, yet there she was on tour. I'd rather hear the new music than more excuses and fake drama.

[haleyd]

Noooooopppppe. Nope-Nope-Nope-Nope. No way. No how. Absolutely not. Never ever.
It wouldn't even be Fleetwood Mac to me anymore; They would be the band formerly known as...
Now that being said, I would still buy the album and go see them. Because I love all of them, but to me Stevie is THEE queen of everything!!! But I wouldn't see more than one show on the tour whereas with a Stevie FM I would go to as many as I could. No matter how much her voice has changed over the years it still sends chills down my spine! Especially live! There is nothing better than seeing Buckingham Nicks on stage together!! IMO of course

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by haleyd

Noooooopppppe. Nope-Nope-Nope-Nope. No way. No how. Absolutely not. Never ever.
It wouldn't even be Fleetwood Mac to me anymore; They would be the band formerly known as...
Now that being said, I would still buy the album and go see them. Because I love all of them, but to me Stevie is THEE queen of everything!!! But I wouldn't see more than one show on the tour whereas with a Stevie FM I would go to as many as I could. No matter how much her voice has changed over the years it still sends chills down my spine! Especially live! There is nothing better than seeing Buckingham Nicks on stage together!! IMO of course

Her voice often sends chills down my spine too.... not necessarily in a good way though

[Murrow]

Absolutely yes!!! Get John to lay down his bass tracks (he says he wasn't involved in the 2014 recordings because of recovery from treatment), record another six songs or so and presto you have a natural follow-up to Tango to which Stevie really only brought two songs of her own anyway (Seven Wonders she only got a credit on because she misheard one of Sandy Stewart's lines).

She swings wildly between saying how F Mac cannot function without the classic lineup then moaning about Lindsey messing up her songs (not something you ever hear from Chris) and she has done from the Shake the Cage tour onwards and it's just boring. Aside from the fact that she's forgiven Mick for the whole Silver Springs thing (it seems).

Mick needs to lay it on the line as he did with Lindsey in 1987 and say "We're doing this and we're doing it now, Lindsey's producing, take it or leave it." Endless dates milking Rumours and the white album dry with mere highlights from the other three have been done to death.

Stevie's done some great stuff with and without Mac and you've only got to hear BTM and SYW to know that all you need is four out of the five to produce a great album.

So I say... move on, wish each other well, try not to slag each other too much and let's have one more lovely lovely album. Dunno how much longer I can go without hearing L/C songs called Carnival Begin and Red Sun...

[PenguinHead]

Lindsey is largely responsible for taking the raw material Stevie brings to the table and turning them into gems -- some of the biggest hits that helped established her. Though Stevie still carries a lot emotional baggage about Lindsey, I don't think she has any issue about him working on her songs. She just has issues of resentment that Lindsey is in control of the studio proceedings.

Someone has to take the lead, and that responsibility falls on Lindsey. It doesn't appear to me that he has Stalin-like tendencies when it comes to producing her songs. On contrary, he deals with her egotistical proclivities with a degree of sensitivity and respect. And he just wants to stay on task and move forward. His motive is to please Stevie, by doing the best he can with her material.

If Stevie isn't present and forthcoming with her disagreements with the direction and development of her songs, that's her fault. She deflects the blame on others in a passive/aggressive manner. Stevie sometimes acts like a spoiled brat. She needs the support, yet she doesn't like it when someone else is in the pilot seat.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by Murrow

Absolutely yes!!! Get John to lay down his bass tracks (he says he wasn't involved in the 2014 recordings because of recovery from treatment), record another six songs or so and presto you have a natural follow-up to Tango to which Stevie really only brought two songs of her own anyway (Seven Wonders she only got a credit on because she misheard one of Sandy Stewart's lines).

She swings wildly between saying how F Mac cannot function without the classic lineup then moaning about Lindsey messing up her songs (not something you ever hear from Chris) and she has done from the Shake the Cage tour onwards and it's just boring. Aside from the fact that she's forgiven Mick for the whole Silver Springs thing (it seems).

Mick needs to lay it on the line as he did with Lindsey in 1987 and say "We're doing this and we're doing it now, Lindsey's producing, take it or leave it." Endless dates milking Rumours and the white album dry with mere highlights from the other three have been done to death.

Stevie's done some great stuff with and without Mac and you've only got to hear BTM and SYW to know that all you need is four out of the five to produce a great album.

So I say... move on, wish each other well, try not to slag each other too much and let's have one more lovely lovely album. Dunno how much longer I can go without hearing L/C songs called Carnival Begin and Red Sun...

Great post Murrow! Well stated valid points.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Murrow

. Dunno how much longer I can go without hearing L/C songs called Carnival Begin and Red Sun...

And the two of them saying they get chills when they hear it.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

And the two of them saying they get chills when they hear it.

Those two are easily chilled.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

Lindsey is largely responsible for taking the raw material Stevie brings to the table and turning them into gems -- some of the biggest hits that helped established her. Though Stevie still carries a lot emotional baggage about Lindsey, I don't think she has any issue about him working on her songs. She just has issues of resentment that Lindsey is in control of the studio proceedings.

Someone has to take the lead, and that responsibility falls on Lindsey. It doesn't appear to me that he has Stalin-like tendencies when it comes to producing her songs. On contrary, he deals with her egotistical proclivities with a degree of sensitivity and respect. And he just wants to stay on task and move forward. His motive is to please Stevie, by doing the best he can with her material.

If Stevie isn't present and forthcoming with her disagreements with the direction and development of her songs, that's her fault. She deflects the blame on others in a passive/aggressive manner. Stevie sometimes acts like a spoiled brat. She needs the support, yet she doesn't like it when someone else is in the pilot seat.

Now. But not always. He admits that he was at times not particularly nice (translation: an a-hole) to her in the studio. He can be and was cutting, nasty, and mean. She also claims that contrary to popular opinion he *didn't* always polish her songs into gems, usually when he was pissed at her (for leaving him...years before. For selling more solo albums. For whatever.). He pretty much admits this too. ("not always our higher/better selves"). His way of slagging her in the press was to always make out like her songs weren't really all that until he got his hands on them. (this is why it became so hugely important to her to get her music out without him). Yes he worked on perfecting the arrangements... uh, that's what a producer does!

Then the band having to ask him not to be such a d*ck to her when she got out of rehab. So I do think she has had lots of years of reasons to not entirely trust him. LB speaks of her "learning to trust him again" and basically acknowledges there were reasons not to. Then by all accounts he said some pretty strong if not outright nasty things towards the end of SYW while the others were in Hawaii.

That said, has she made him pay for all his past transgressions? Yep. And then some. Did she prefer to party than slog it out in the studio on her songs? Sometimes. Still, they should have moved past it all a long time ago. These days Stevie clearly knows the power she has in the band and isn't above wielding it however she sees fit, which lately I think is totally to the detriment of the band. She's had enough solo success to have proven her point that she can indeed be quite successful without him, and more successful (in terms of sales) than him solo. Duly noted. Now can we please move on and be grown ups and do one last album before it's too late??

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Now. But not always. He admits that he was at times not particularly nice (translation: an a-hole) to her in the studio. He can be and was cutting, nasty, and mean.

But when she stops speaking in broad generalizations ("when he was not happy with me") and gives us specific examples of what he said that was so awful or how he displayed his contempt, it's stuff like calling her Sammy Davis Jr. (or whatever he called her for taking the mic off of the stand) or he told her to change a pronoun in a song, a comment that she found so scathing she found it necessary to put it in a documentary 10 years later.

Sure, everyone says, "well it's not what you say, it's how you say it." But in the Thrown Down example, we heard how he said it and it really was no big deal. Did he say it to annoy her? Probably. But was it browbeating and cruel coming from someone you've known for 40 years? No way.

The whole thing with Silver Springs with Mick telling her in the parking lot, sounded like Lindsey was actively avoiding being the one to tell her, which, if he just loved to taunt her, I'd think he'd be all over giving her the great news that her beloved song was off the album and the dreaded IDWTK was on.

I can look at the Angel clip when he says "in a word" and tell that his sarcasm could get to anyone and when the camera is not on, I know they clash much harder. But I just wish she'd share exactly what he says to her that's so awful, rather than just broadly claiming he was mean to her and everyone concluding, oh he is the Ayatollah just like she said, without any specifics to back that up.

And when Stevie came in to do Tango, she thought they'd all be mad at her for the Tom Petty/Bob Dylan tour and she says she was surprised that they weren't, so I got the feeling that everyone made it a point to control themselves with her, because of her vulnerable state, not just Lindsey.

Michele

[AncientQueen]

I do believe that Lindsey has been mean and has used his producing as a way to control and punish Stevie. Imho he is as much a diva as she is, if not even more.

But Stevie has a tendency to portray herself as the victim in FM circumstances and this is getting stronger over the last years. (I can't with her recent whining about the many tour dates - she should talk about it with her manager, but not whine around in public/make her paying audience feel bad about stressing her so much.)

Only she knows how her songwriting abilities are this days (she has already ransacked her old demo tapes mercilessly) so blaming others for not wanting to record is pretty transparent by now. With Christine on board and the Chris/Lindsey dynamic, there is quite a risk to be the weak link in the (songwriting) chain (again), and that may be the reason for her to hesitate so much.

And - with FM, she has to deliver, Christine and Lindsey aren't payed session musicians and/or professional yes-ma'am folks, maybe she would prefer it that way, she get's away with sub par on her solo work, but not with FM.