25 Years Ago: Fleetwood Mac Release ‘Behind the Mask’ Without Lindsey Buckingham

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

We never hear Lindsey talk of any personal demons like substance abuse. We heard him bash Stevie and Mick for not wanting to go on the road with them and their issues. I wonder what changes he needed to make in his life that he would act like this?

Lindsey didn't bash them in the press, as his excuse for leaving. He talked about his girlfriend not liking them working on his property in the Winnebago, but mostly he simply said the band was crazy doing Tango and that things would just be 10 times crazier on the road than on the studio. In 1997, he also said that Stevie was no longer the person he'd known and he had his own issues about her that he couldn't get over until he was out of the band and away from her. Mick and Stevie are the ones who offered more details about why he left. Mick said that Lindsey was afraid that he'd be drawn back into drugs, if he hung around Mick and Stevie said that he was fearful for her. Lindsey then commented on their remarks about why he left when they were doing the Unleashed tour. But he never said he left because they were so awful.

Michele

[olive]

with the exception of the second time , I love this CD and the Line up

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Lindsey didn't bash them in the press, as his excuse for leaving. He talked about his girlfriend not liking them working on his property in the Winnebago, but mostly he simply said the band was crazy doing Tango and that things would just be 10 times crazier on the road than on the studio. In 1997, he also said that Stevie was no longer the person he'd known and he had his own issues about her that he couldn't get over until he was out of the band and away from her. Mick and Stevie are the ones who offered more details about why he left. Mick said that Lindsey was afraid that he'd be drawn back into drugs, if he hung around Mick and Stevie said that he was fearful for her. Lindsey then commented on their remarks about why he left when they were doing the Unleashed tour. But he never said he left because they were so awful.

Michele

You have your opinion to what negative comments in the press come to the level of bashing. Yes I have heard the quote you use coming from Lindsey but I have also heard much stronger language alleging to not wanting to be around crazy people on the road. Lindsey even made his next studio album video about Mick.
I stand by my words and think the negative comments "bashing" are appropriate. He could have said nothing or said he is moving on to better things. But to talk about people's personal vices to the press is bashing IMHO

[The Juggler]

To be completely honest, I think this album stinks. I take:

- Love Is Dangerous
- Skies The Limit
- Behind The Mask

and run. Overall, I think is really stale. Tango had pushed the production boundaries and even though it's 80's through and through, it has a fresh and identifiable production. This album just limps along.

I think the songs are pretty questionable as well. Even the four mentioned above aren't that great. Stevie was in the middle of her klonopin addiction and let's be frank, her songs on this record are crap.

Even though it said Christine "took the horns", I think this album has her worst set of songs ever. Skies The Limit is limp and barely passable, Behind The Mask is good, the rest are pretty rubbish. Especially Do You Know, which is a truly terrible number. Sorry Christine, I'm usually a huge fan of your work but the songs here are not up to scratch.

Love Is Dangerous is probably the best song on here, and the only one I'd put on a Greatest Hits. It says it was co-written with Stevie but I suspect a "Seven Wonders" situation where Stevie changed a word and got a credit. It's a good song, if a bit hillbillyish. But it's the best one on here.

The CD cover is actually atrocious as well! The picture is really weird, not sure how it "represents" the band, it makes them seem like some hillbilly country ranch band playing at the local hall for 10 dollars per night. And the frame is horrible as well, it reminds me of my grandmother's wallpaper.

So yeah overall I'm not a fan of this era at all. The band should have called it quits after release of Greatest Hits, the two new songs on that were quite good actually. By 1990 though, the band seems tired. After a promising start, I don't think the two boys ever fitted in properly. Their songs on this record aren't great either. When The Sun Goes Down further reinforces this country music which I don't like.

(And as a final note, I think The Second Time is the worst Stevie song ever. Poor Stevie sounds lifeless, droning over that horrid guitar. I remember reading that it was compared to "Landslide" at the time! HA!)

[michelej1]

I think Save Me is one of Christine's better songs and I actually wish it had been done at another point in the band's career, when it would have been heard by more people.

Behind the Mask is quite good too, and a departure for Christine, I think.

I don't really like Skies the Limit , but when I hear it out in public (seems like I hear it in CVS a lot), it really captures me. I enjoy it a lot, although when I'm at home or in my car and could hear it any time, I never choose to play it.

Michele

[MikeInNV]

I just cannot reconcile this "afraid for Stevie" stuff. By the time Tango was released, Stevie was in great shape. The promotional interviews they did (while Lindsey was still in the band) and the Shake the Cage Tour both show Stevie in fine form. The coke was gone, and it took a while for the Klonopin to become a problem. It just doesn't add up to me.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by MikeInNV

I just cannot reconcile this "afraid for Stevie" stuff. By the time Tango was released, Stevie was in great shape. The promotional interviews they did (while Lindsey was still in the band) and the Shake Cage Tour both show Stevie in fine form. The coke was gone, and it took a while for the Klonopin to become a problem. It just doesn't add up to me.

I don't think Stevie was in "great" shape, but I don't think that rationale necessarily adds up, either. Both Stevie and Mick romanticized the reason Lindsey left the group themselves. Stevie is the one we first heard say that Lindsey left because he was afraid for her around the time of Unleashed. Lindsey had never said that before. But when confronted with her saying that, he didn't disagree. But it's not a reason he gave for leaving himself. He may or may not have been afraid for her, but he didn't talk about it. She's the one who first did.

And similarly in 2003 (and again in 2012) Mick said that Lindsey left because:

"I pushed Lindsey away, because he was never really much part of all that stuff," says Fleetwood. Did he frighten him? "In a way, yes, I probably did. We all have people we know like, 'Oh, I can only take him in small doses, he's off again . . .' The lifestyle and the trimmings became unattractive to Lindsey. He thought I was going to force him to sit in a corner and drink a bottle of wine with me. I was a crazy guy for a long time. Lindsey's very private, and he will never be otherwise."

But Lindsey didn't say that. Not to the press. In fact, Mick is the one who talked about Lindsey turning to them during an Unleashed interview and saying something like, "I couldn't watch you doing that to yourselves any more" and they all started crying and Mick declared it was Lindsey saying, "I love you. So, we got that melodramatic version of the story from Mick around 2012 or 2013. But we didn't see the interview where Lindsey actually turned to Stevie and Mick and said that.

What Lindsey said about leaving was that it was a survival move. He couldn't get any closure. He wanted to pursue his solo work, etc. But he didn't close the door on continuing to record with them.

Mick and Lindsey both said that Lindsey might not have left the band at all, if he could just keep recording, but they wanted to go on tour and Lindsey didn't want to go. So, they pushed the issue of a tour, something he couldn't agree to and then he left.

MICK:

It really got to a situation where it was like 'hey, we haven't done anything for four years, what are we really doing...are you in this band or not?' And that's what it really came to with Lindsey Buckingham. It came to forcing the issue to a point where he had to say 'I can't do it, I don't want to do it.' Cause if we left it and said, 'well, alright we won't go on the road' he might not have actually left and then we would have found ourselves sitting around for another four years not doing anything and it's not fair."

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

But to talk about people's personal vices to the press is bashing IMHO

He didn't talk about Mick or Stevie's personal vices, though. They, Stevie and Mick, talked about their personal vices, years later. He didn't talk about their vices to the press when he left the band.

All Lindsey talked about was band craziness and he included himself in that. He said:

"We had a Winnebago parked in front because we didn't want the whole house to be used for a lounge, so to speak. I had a girlfriend then who was very threatened by the whole situation, and that didn't really work very well, either. But the snapshot would be us trying to get things done in an atmosphere where there was just a lot of crazy stuff going on and not a lot of focus, and not a lot of unity and certainty. And no sense of us wanting to do this for . . . for the reasons we originally got into it for. That's my last snapshot of 1987. And then a little 10-year vacation."

Then, later on Mick said that he now realizes that Lindsey was afraid that he might get pulled back into drugs if he hung around Mick. Lindsey never said that. Stevie said that Lindsey left because he was afraid for her. Lindsey never said that to the press -- not until Stevie said it about herself and the press asked him to respond, when they were doing those Unleashed interviews. Mick said that when they were all being interviewed in 2012, Lindsey told MICK and Stevie that he left because he was afraid of what was happening to them and that all 3 of them started crying. But Lindsey never said anything about Stevie or Mick's "personal vices" when he left the band. He talked about the craziness in the recording studio, in general, and he talked about everyone having separate managers, which made it hard to get things done.


Michele

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by michelej1

He didn't talk about Mick or Stevie's personal vices, though. They, Stevie and Mick, talked about their personal vices, years later. He didn't talk about their vices to the press when he left the band.

All Lindsey talked about was band craziness and he included himself in that. He said:



Then, later on Mick said that he now realizes that Lindsey was afraid that he might get pulled back into drugs if he hung around Mick. Lindsey never said that. Stevie said that Lindsey left because he was afraid for her. Lindsey never said that to the press -- not until Stevie said it about herself and the press asked him to respond, when they were doing those Unleashed interviews. Mick said that when they were all being interviewed in 2012, Lindsey told MICK and Stevie that he left because he was afraid of what was happening to them and that all 3 of them started crying. But Lindsey never said anything about Stevie or Mick's "personal vices" when he left the band. He talked about the craziness in the recording studio, in general, and he talked about everyone having separate managers, which made it hard to get things done.


Michele

I guess we will have to agree to disagree
When Lindsey left, yes there was not immediate comments on anything. But as the years trickled on Lindsey did comment on many things including Billy and Rick. When BTM was released, Lindsey stated to the press that Fleetwood Mac made a mistake in trying to replace him and how that would never work. He suggested the Mac should have went on in a new direction. He made those comments even though he contributed to the album BTM. He never used the words drugs but definitely hinted at substance abuse how things get worse on tour. Even Stevie said recently that Lindsey was frustrated since she was drugged out during this time how she would show up late to recording, etc. These hints were trickled out years later. It came to a climax with Lindsey's interpretation of Mick in video.
This is why I brought up in my original post how vague and subtle Lindsey is. This tour Lindsey has changed his Big Love intro from early in the tour. Now he says he needed to break away from the band to make major changes in his life. I want to know what those changes were. He used to say that it was almost the excess of the band that made him leave. This was a first I ever heard Lindsey say these words before. I commented this in my Miami review. For the first time he admits he was not right during this time instead of others. I just wish he would not talk in code so much.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Even Stevie said recently that Lindsey was frustrated since she was drugged out during this time how she would show up late to recording, etc. .

Yes, that's my point. Stevie said that she was on drugs at the time. My comment was that you are wrong about Lindsey citing Mick or Stevie's substance abuse as the reason he left the band. He never did. Nor did he talk about their personal vices. When he talked about band craziness, it was always in the context of all 5 of them and the way they were interacting.

And since 1997 he has talked about his own demons as reasons why he needed to leave the band. He even said he left and went into therapy.

As for his bashing BTM, there are no interviews in which he did that, except the one where he boasted it took two guitarists to replace him.

But Christine is the one who said that Mick should have gone another route (instead of Dave Mason) instead of trying to fix a broken vase. Lindsey didn't talk about Behind the Mask being destined to failure. He did put down the nostalgia tour with Pat Benatar a few years later though. He said that was sad. He didn't say that about BTM. When he talked about appearing on stage with BTM he said it was easy for him because all he had to do was come out and play GYOW and that was sure to go over well, but he didn't say anything else about BTM, the album or the tour. In fact, he said he didn't watch their live show, even when he was backstage.

I don't disagree with you that Lindsey talks in code sometimes, but I don't think there are any interviews or quotes that suggest he was telling the press "Oh, Mick and Stevie's drug abuse force me out." That's why they said he left. He didn't say that's why. He cited mostly creative reasons for leaving and, in his Say Goodbye discussions, said that he couldn't get over Stevie while he was still in the band with her, again freely admitting he had his own demons to deal with.

Michele

[secondhandchain]

The album is pretty good. The song Behind the Mask is VERY good, and could have been on any previous FM album.

[Jondalar]

This album proved that Lindsey really was responsible for Fleetwood Macs success.The album was horrible and only managed to go platinum because it came after Tango In The Night.

[jools]

In my opinion Behind The Mask could have been much better ( on hearing the demos and outtakes for the period)

But saying that the following songs i think are great

"In the Back of My Mind"
"Skies the Limit"
"Save Me"
"Behind the Mask"
"Love Is Dangerous"
"Do You Know"

But the "Behind The Mask" tour was excellent
Because of Rick & Billy, FM decided to play some of the early FM music

Far Superior to ny tour FM have done since

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Yes, that's my point. Stevie said that she was on drugs at the time. My comment was that you are wrong about Lindsey citing Mick or Stevie's substance abuse as the reason he left the band. He never did. Nor did he talk about their personal vices. When he talked about band craziness, it was always in the context of all 5 of them and the way they were interacting.

And since 1997 he has talked about his own demons as reasons why he needed to leave the band. He even said he left and went into therapy.

As for his bashing BTM, there are no interviews in which he did that, except the one where he boasted it took two guitarists to replace him.

But Christine is the one who said that Mick should have gone another route (instead of Dave Mason) instead of trying to fix a broken vase. Lindsey didn't talk about Behind the Mask being destined to failure. He did put down the nostalgia tour with Pat Benatar a few years later though. He said that was sad. He didn't say that about BTM. When he talked about appearing on stage with BTM he said it was easy for him because all he had to do was come out and play GYOW and that was sure to go over well, but he didn't say anything else about BTM, the album or the tour. In fact, he said he didn't watch their live show, even when he was backstage.

I don't disagree with you that Lindsey talks in code sometimes, but I don't think there are any interviews or quotes that suggest he was telling the press "Oh, Mick and Stevie's drug abuse force me out." That's why they said he left. He didn't say that's why. He cited mostly creative reasons for leaving and, in his Say Goodbye discussions, said that he couldn't get over Stevie while he was still in the band with her, again freely admitting he had his own demons to deal with.

Michele

Last night I went to youtube to check out Lindsey's Wrong video. The song is about his bitter leaving Fleetwood Mac almost making it look like he was being forced to perform or something. But there is a quick scene of him in a bathroom chugging what looks like a prescription pill bottle. I want to know is this him or is this a swipe at Stevie. The Piggy in the middle and Piggy on the cover line is classic. More code language to think of the excesses a pig enjoys.
Back to my original point... I would love a candid interview with Lindsey someday

There are some great songs on BTM
A little known fact that I learned listening to Dick Clark's countdown in 1990 when Skies the Limit was on the Adult contemporary charts was the song was a last minute addition to the album. The album was finished and Christine thought the album sounded too dark. It lacked one of her peppy love songs. So she quickly wrote Skies the Limit and made it a first cut on the album.
I would say half the songs on the album are good to very good. Some of the songs like Hard Feelings by Billy is pretty bad IMHO.
My favorites are:
Skies the Limit
Back of my Mind
When it comes to Love
Behind the Mask
Freedom
Save Me
Love is Dangerous

I don't like Hard Feelings or Affairs of the Heart. Affairs of the Heart almost seems like a demo IMHO. Very little on the creative side too. Stand on the Rock and Do you know are ok. The album only hit #18 on the US charts but went to #1 in the UK. That is interesting. Rolling Stone raved about the album giving it 4/5 stars and stating Rick and Billy were the best thing that ever happened to Fleetwood Mac. While other critics did not have good things to say.

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Last night I went to youtube to check out Lindsey's Wrong video. The song is about his bitter leaving Fleetwood Mac almost making it look like he was being forced to perform or something. But there is a quick scene of him in a bathroom chugging what looks like a prescription pill bottle. I want to know is this him or is this a swipe at Stevie. The Piggy in the middle and Piggy on the cover line is classic. More code language to think of the excesses a pig enjoys.
Back to my original point... I would love a candid interview with Lindsey someday

There are some great songs on BTM
A little known fact that I learned listening to Dick Clark's countdown in 1990 when Skies the Limit was on the Adult contemporary charts was the song was a last minute addition to the album. The album was finished and Christine thought the album sounded too dark. It lacked one of her peppy love songs. So she quickly wrote Skies the Limit and made it a first cut on the album.
I would say half the songs on the album are good to very good. Some of the songs like Hard Feelings by Billy is pretty bad IMHO.
My favorites are:
Skies the Limit
Back of my Mind
When it comes to Love
Behind the Mask
Freedom
Save Me
Love is Dangerous

I don't like Hard Feelings or Affairs of the Heart. Affairs of the Heart almost seems like a demo IMHO. Very little on the creative side too. Stand on the Rock and Do you know are ok. The album only hit #18 on the US charts but went to #1 in the UK. That is interesting. Rolling Stone raved about the album giving it 4/5 stars and stating Rick and Billy were the best thing that ever happened to Fleetwood Mac. While other critics did not have good things to say.

The actual demo of Affairs of the Heart is much, much better than the actual version that made it onto the album- much edgier;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x34B71_sVsM

Behind The Mask did make #1 in the UK but that was almost entirely down to the phenomenal success of Tango In The Night. I bet the Rolling Stone journalist would love to take that comment back if given the chance- its been quoted so many times since then.