should FM release the album without SN's songs?

[elle]

Originally Posted by The Catdancer

I was thinking about that the other day and why he never got credit for that. Look at Dreams for instance. When she gave it to the band even Christine was like:"What the heck is this? It only has 3 chords". Lindsey worked his magic and it became their only no. 1 in the US but he never got any credit whatsoever.

Originally Posted by shackin'up

Yes, That's what I simply don't understand. Your whole band wants to crawl for you to please you as you wish, and still you can't conquer the possible tension that COULD lead to something electrifying.

Not for sales, not for avoiding pain, not for selfesteem, just for the love of chemistry that you once had with the five of you.

Last time was 86-87 and you were in deep shyt, and not there. Now you all are coming of age and are willing to respect eachothers feelings more than ever. Do it one more time, WHY the friggin' hell NOT?

Originally Posted by MikeVielhaber

The band is listed as co-producer, but not a Lindsey himself. I don't know how accurate that is or if he gets enough credit that way. I'm guessing he had more to do with the production than the others, but maybe other people here know more about that. I know on Tusk they gave him "special thanks."

interesting posts, and i think you all are onto something.

for all we know, and judging by the Tusk doc, Lindsey did much more than just arranging and producing on many of the songs. remember "if we keep your melody on there"? and actually WMYTYTO, TL lyrics project a lot of that frustration. yet he never received or asked for the songwriting credit and unlike with the producing where he gripes about it (and then people slam him when he's asking for producing credit , of course! - isn't he a whiny diva, right? ). he never says what exactly he did on many of Stevie's songs in the past. neither does Stevie, i don't think.

but i think self-esteem that you mentioned in passing Gerald has a lot to do with it. that's the reason Stevie doesn't want to go back to the band and work with Lindsey in particular anymore. he offered he can give her some melodies, remember? she feels she found other people she can work with when she's out of inspiration for chords and melodies (and doesn't mind giving them the credit for work they do, there's no historical baggage and co-dependency there for her). she doesn't want to go back to being dependent on LB. we won't see any SN/LB so-writes but seems very likely we'll see plenty more of SN/DS ones.

[WildHearted]

Originally Posted by elle

interesting posts, and i think you all are onto something.

for all we know, and judging by the Tusk doc, Lindsey did much more than just arranging and producing on many of the songs. remember "if we keep your melody on there"? and actually WMYTYTO, TL lyrics project a lot of that frustration. yet he never received or asked for the songwriting credit and unlike with the producing where he gripes about it (and then people slam him when he's asking for producing credit , of course! - isn't he a whiny diva, right? ). he never says what exactly he did on many of Stevie's songs in the past. neither does Stevie, i don't think.

Actually, they've both talked about it quite a bit. Stevie would write lyrics and a melody and a chord progression and record a demo of it accompanying herself either on piano or before she taught herself piano, guitar. Then she'd hand it over to Lindsey and he would figure out what parts to add to it, possibly some structural things, basically flesh it out instrumentally, or even suggest a tweak hear and there etc. But fleshing something out structurally/instrumentally is not the same thing as writing a song. It's arranging. I could take a song of Stevie's and completely change everything but the lyrics and melody and that doesn't mean I now can claim to have written my version of her song. I just made a new arrangement of it.

[RockawayBlind]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

But fleshing something out structurally/instrumentally is not the same thing as writing a song. It's arranging. I could take a song of Stevie's and completely change everything but the lyrics and melody and that doesn't mean I now can claim to have written my version of her song. I just made a new arrangement of it.

In all fairness, you are absolutely correct about this. I should have made the point myself when I downplayed Stevie's talent and contribution. I should have been more fair.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

for all we know, and judging by the Tusk doc, Lindsey did much more than just arranging and producing on many of the songs. remember "if we keep your melody on there"? and actually WMYTYTO, TL lyrics project a lot of that frustration. yet he never received or asked for the songwriting credit and unlike with the producing where he gripes about it (and then people slam him when he's asking for producing credit , of course! - isn't he a whiny diva, right? ). he never says what exactly he did on many of Stevie's songs in the past. neither does Stevie, i don't think.

She's talked about it over the years and differently. For SYW she said she came in with pretty fully realized demos.

Well, he doesn't do a whole lot of things with arranging, because my demos are pretty much there. That doesn't mean that they're not 100 percent more terrific after Lindsey works on them. I'm very territorial about the way my songs are arranged. What he does is take the skeleton and then he goes in for hours that we never see him and he plays parts and parts and more parts. He arranges right underneath my little skeleton.

But in the old days before SYW, he did more than that to her songs.

No, no. I would sit down and play him Gold Dust Woman on the guitar, my simple little version, and two days later it would be recorded, and it would be recorded really well. He could take my songs and do what I would do if I had his musical talent. When he wasn't angry with me, that is. That's why there's seven or eight great songs, and there's 50 more where he wasn't happy with me and didn't help me.

That's why I think he shouldn't do anything on her next batch of songs, except maybe sing background, because she and her fans don't need to be complaining about how he ruined or deliberately sabotaged her for the next 10 years.

She once told Rolling Stone,

"I write my songs, but Lindsey puts the magic in, and there's no way, well, I could pay him ten percent. I could walk up to him and thank him. If I were to play you a song the way I wrote it and gave it to them, and then play you the way it is on the album, you would see what Lindsey did."

Today, I don't think she thinks he brings magic to the songs any longer. So, that's the seismic shift. If they've lost the chemistry in the studio, at least they still have it on stage and we're getting all FIVE on a tour. That's good enough for me.

Michele