Stevie's everywhere except in the studio.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by michelej1

According to the documentary, that wasn't Lindsey getting his wish. They both listened to samples from the two engineers and Stevie agreed on Needham.

I don't remember Stevie agreeing to Needham because she necessarily liked what he was doing. As I mentioned in my previous post (which I was writing before reading your reply), I remember Chris Lord-Alge's schedule getting filled and Stevie consenting to "Lindsey's guy." Not really a compromise if she felt she had no other choice.

Originally Posted by michelej1

As for the way the album was sequenced, Lindsey said he was the only one working while they were in Hawaii. Could be if they (Stevie and Mick) had been in Los Angeles at the time, they could have got the sequencing they wanted.

Does someone have to be in the same location to decide sequencing? Stevie's long claimed that she listened to the 'Rumours' tracks at home and then gave the band her sequencing. If Stevie had another running order in mind, and it sounds like she did, would it have really mattered if she were in LA?

Originally Posted by michelej1

As for the size of the album, the 18 song SYW was a compromise. Not as long as Lindsey wanted and not the regular album that Stevie wanted.

I've heard this mentioned before, but I still don't see 18 songs -- a 76 minute album -- as a "compromise" between a regular album and a double. How many more songs could Lindsey have wanted? 'Tusk' only had two more, and still had a shorter running time.

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don't buy the view that he trumped her on every count. It seems more like a compromise with both losing a little.

One side lost very little in those battles.

Originally Posted by michelej1

But is she tired of making those compromises? Probably. If so, then just don't work with him any more. Go get someone else to produce her songs and then just hand them to FM. Take it or leave it. That would be preferable to hold outs on either side.

Agreed. As I've said, I don't think any of this should be viewed as Stevie "holding out." If she's trying to decide where to record, and if she's trying to decide if she wants Lindsey or someone else to produce, at least she's on board in general. Logistics are logistics.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

One side lost very little in those battles

define "very little". is it defined by the amount one bickers in the media? he gave tons of his best songs to that album. didn't he also agree not to get paid for some of them? yes he's still proud of songs on that album (as he should be!), but does he really enjoy doing all the work and getting only constant bickering as a reward? i'll give in to you now because i care about you but you'll never hear the end of it in the media after that?? i don't know.

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

As I've said, I don't think any of this should be viewed as Stevie "holding out." If she's trying to decide where to record, and if she's trying to decide if she wants Lindsey or someone else to produce, at least she's on board in general. Logistics are logistics.

she had tons of time to decide that months ago, why start only now?

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

define "very little".

Define "side.' I think the opinion of one side losing very little tends to vary, depending on what side you're on.

Michele

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by elle

define "very little". is it defined by the amount one bickers in the media? he gave tons of his best songs to that album. didn't he also agree not to get paid for some of them? yes he's still proud of songs on that album (as he should be!), but does he really enjoy doing all the work and getting only constant bickering as a reward? i'll give in to you now because i care about you but you'll never hear the end of it in the media after that?? i don't know.

Lindsey agreed to not get paid on a certain amount of songs, if it were going to be a double-album. That has something to do with the way mechanical royalties are worked out, when you're both the songwriter and performer. When he feared that Stevie might not tour beyond 40 dates, he backed off. So, he most certainly did get paid for his eight songs.

Originally Posted by elle

she had tons of time to decide that months ago, why start only now?

Who said she only just started to decide? Plus, we don't know what's been decided in the weeks since those interviews were given.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Who said she only just started to decide? Plus, we don't know what's been decided in the weeks since those interviews were given.

you.

all major decisions should be sorted out by now. and i hope they are. but yeah, we have no clue. this whole thread is a complete speculation. but fun nevertheless.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by elle

you.

all major decisions should be sorted out by now. and i hope they are. but yeah, we have no clue. this whole thread is a complete speculation. but fun nevertheless.

I said she may still be deciding... I didn't say she's only started to decide.

I do agree with you that the speculation is fun. I also agree that all the major decisions may have already been ironed out.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Lindsey agreed to not get paid on a certain amount of songs, if it were going to be a double-album. That has something to do with the way mechanical royalties are worked out, when you're both the songwriter and performer. When he feared that Stevie might not tour beyond 40 dates, he backed off. So, he most certainly did get paid for his eight songs.

I don't know what the limit is, 12 or 10 tracks. I think 12. But Lindsey was planning to absorb the cost for SYW going over that limit and planned to make up the difference with the tour proceeds.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Does someone have to be in the same location to decide sequencing?

You don't, but someone might have to be in Los Angeles to convince the record execs to go along with their ideas. You can have more influence in person than you can via telephone. Stevie knows this. That's why you can see her and Lindsey vying to influence the record executives when they are in the studio listening to SYW.

The record execs probably have to sign off on the sequencing and they decide what the first single is. If Lindsey is there pushing his side and the rest of the band is miles away, then of course his side is going to have more influence.

If she chose Needham because her guy didn't have time, that is not Lindsey forcing his desires on her.

As far as a double album goes, since we aren't using vinyl anymore, the SYW double album could have held way more songs than Tusk did. And, a double album may have given them the space to sequence the songs better (since you think this was such a loss for Stevie) and, perhaps, even break them up into themes for Disc 1 and Disc 2, so it would have been more cohesive.

At any rate, the 18-song SYW didn't come off as being such a coup for Lindsey in DR as you make it out to be. Michele

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by michelej1

The record execs probably have to sign off on the sequencing and they decide what the first single is. If Lindsey is there pushing his side and the rest of the band is miles away, then of course his side is going to have more influence.

I'm not discounting your point of view, but I don't believe I've ever heard an artist stating that the record company had any influence on their album's running order. They give other notes, sure. "I don't hear a single." "You need to go in another direction." But I don't think they'd say, "'Murrow' needs to follow 'Smile At You.'"

Originally Posted by michelej1

If she chose Needham because her guy didn't have time, that is not Lindsey forcing his desires on her.

If Lindsey dragged his feet to the point where she had no choice, what else is she going to do? As we've seen many times with this band, passive-aggressively is certainly one way to force your will on someone.

Originally Posted by michelej1

As far as a double album goes, since we aren't using vinyl anymore, the SYW double album could have held way more songs than Tusk did. And, a double album may have given them the space to sequence the songs better (since you think this was such a loss for Stevie) and, perhaps, even break them up into themes for Disc 1 and Disc 2, so it would have been more cohesive.

Off-topic, but I wonder how many more songs we'd have seen if there had been two discs. We know of course that "Not Make Believe" and "Love Minus Zero" were completed. And, in his 2003 Guitar World interview with Lindsey, Art Thompson mentioned "I Am Waiting" and "Gift Of Screws" as possible candidates when the unfinished album was previewed for him.

I'd love to know if there were additional Stevie tracks completed, and if any of the other 'GoS' recordings were in the running. Or if the double-album would have consisted of those 22 songs spread across two discs.

Originally Posted by michelej1

At any rate, the 18-song SYW didn't come off as being such a coup for Lindsey in DR as you make it out to be.

Still seemed a lot closer to his vision than anyone else's.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Still seemed a lot closer to his vision than anyone else's.

there were visions other than his? what were they, How To Compose Popular Songs That Will Sell (in the words of Bob Geldof)?

i pray to commercial gods...

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by elle

there were visions other than his? what were they, How To Compose Popular Songs That Will Sell (in the words of Bob Geldof)?

i pray to commercial gods...

Edgy and avant-garde aren't the only visions an artist can have for their songs. You can also want to craft music that people can relate to. That will have wide appeal.

(And Stevie only said she prayed to the "commercial gods" regarding one song -- "Say You Will." Can anyone argue that "Running Through The Garden" or "Illume" or "Goodbye Baby" are commercial? She wrote those songs too, ya know.)

[elle]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Edgy and avant-garde aren't the only visions an artist can have for their songs. You can also want to craft music that people can relate to. That will have wide appeal.

(And Stevie only said she prayed to the "commercial gods" regarding one song -- "Say You Will." Can anyone argue that "Running Through The Garden" or "Illume" or "Goodbye Baby" are commercial? She wrote those songs too, ya know.)

ah. thought we were discussing a vision for the album, not songs.

(yeah, i try to forget those songs are on SYW )

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by elle

ah. thought we were discussing a vision for the album, not songs.

It's the same difference, no? When you're crafting songs with an eye toward releasing an album, then it follows that whatever vision you have for the songs is the vision you have for the album as a whole.

Stevie envisioned an album that sounded more like "Fleetwood Mac." Seems that many fans and critics were hoping for the same thing.

Originally Posted by elle

(yeah, i try to forget those songs are on SYW )

Of course you do -- Stevie wrote them.

[Macfanforever]

We are so lucky at this moment that all 5 members will be standing in front of us in person this fall.

If they record.Its a bonus for us.I'm not going to hold it against them if they dont.

We just got to relax wait and see what they will do and we will be the first ones to find out.

In time. We got our IYD DVD's even signed by Stevie.Also we got a EP of FM.

Just like when the rumours were floating around when Chris was with Mick at his place and later she wanted to join FM for those shows in London plus the news that she want rejoin FM for this upcoming tour.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Macfanforever

We are so lucky at this moment that all 5 members will be standing in front of us in person this fall.

If they record.Its a bonus for us.I'm not going to hold it against them if they dont.

We just got to relax wait and see what they will do and we will be the first ones to find out.

well some of us do not like the idea of them doing a cash-grab tour, then an album, then another tour, which seems to be going at least through 2016.

Lindsey is 64. i'd like to see a few more solo albums and interesting tours out of him while he's in his prolific phase, instead of this running in the rat wheel trying to get one FM album out for the last 5 years now, while doing boring GH cash-grab tours which are extremely expensive to go to. and it looks like it will be at least one more year before we actually get to see it out, and that seems to be the best case scenario. apparently you all are telling me i should be happy with that turn of events. but i'm not. i'm extremely unhappy and disappointed.