Why the disdain for Mick?

[elle]

other than bad handling of his finances (that has been discussed way too much already), these are the other reasons i see listed, and i'm still puzzled by most of them:

Originally Posted by RockawayBlind

Yeah, I think people are forgetting how much of a disaster that website was. So many people got banned from it for very silly reasons.

this one i can understand - people expressing dislike if they were personally burned, like this seems to indicate.

Originally Posted by RockawayBlind

Also, I think people forget how disloyal he was to the rest of the band with his book that came out around 1990. There was a fair number of untruths in it, and Lindsey even responded to it with his song "Wrong" on the Out of the Cradle CD.

but if these band members are over this, as they seem to be, i don't get why fans keep holding the grudge?

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

I'll say it again - Then he should keep his financial woes to himself - or ask Stevie to stop telling everyone that she has to put her solo career aside *again* so Mick can tour 'cause he needs the money.

i don't really see how he can stop Stevie from saying whatever she wants to.

Originally Posted by BlueDenimLamp

This is one of the things I don't like about Mick...Stevie was nice enough to invite Mick to play on her record (IYD) and she even portrays him as a fairly charming guy in the IYD doc and how did he return the favor???While Stevie was doing her "IYD" thing Mick publicly complained about not working and stating that he feared that FM might never tour again...He even went so far as to accuse certain band members (Stevie) of not being loyal to the band...

i'm not sure how Mick playing on Stevie's album is a favor to him? i would think it's a favor that he did for her. what did he gain by helping her out?

[Phil]

MacShadowsBall wrote:

I've noticed also that everybody likes John...

I beg to differ...

[MacShadowsBall]

Phil and others...

Do you know of anything where fans have said bad things about John? Now I've only been in fandom/Ledgie for about four years, but I have heard very little. Perhaps back in the day things were said/believed/felt by fans. I don't know how well he treated Christine back in his drinking days. Suffice it to say, none of them treated each other all that great from about '76-'87.

Really interesting conversations, by the way....

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

Phil and others...

Do you know of anything where fans have said bad things about John? Now I've only been in fandom/Ledgie for about four years, but I have heard very little. Perhaps back in the day things were said/believed/felt by fans. I don't know how well he treated Christine back in his drinking days. Suffice it to say, none of them treated each other all that great from about '76-'87.

Really interesting conversations, by the way....

John dressed as a Nazi, and Christine in blackface and 1979–1980, and people still hold it against him.

[MacShadowsBall]

One thing to remember too is that being a "fan" of one's talent is different than being a "fan" of the actual person. One can be a fan of Micks drumming but not a fan of himself. The same goes for Lindsey and others.

On a side note, I tend to like everybody! Even my crazy boss who has threatened to fire me twice in the past two months, I still "kinda" like her. I mean she's like insane, but we are still nice to each other!

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

One thing to remember too is that being a "fan" of one's talent is different than being a "fan" of the actual person. One can be a fan of Micks drumming but not a fan of himself. The same goes for Lindsey and others.

That's true. I'm sure a lot of the people who complain about Mick think he's an awesome musician.

Michele

[MacShadowsBall]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

John dressed as a Nazi, and Christine in blackface and 1979–1980, and people still hold it against him.

Really! I didn't know that.

I read your posts michele. I understand what you're saying.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

I read your posts michele. I understand what you're saying.

You mentioned that you and your boss are still nice to each other and that's a point we can use here. Things said on a music message board --that he doesn't read -- don't reflect what someone would say to Mick if they met him in real life. I'm sure that even his detractors would be cordial to him in person and probably delighted by his presence and most might actually like him fine in that situation.

It's easy to view a person who is a public figure in the abstract and to assess them in ways that you would not, meeting a flesh and blood human whose face is familiar but who you realize is actually a stranger.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

Really! I didn't know that.

This is the photo.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by elle

i'm not sure how Mick playing on Stevie's album is a favor to him? i would think it's a favor that he did for her. what did he gain by helping her out?

he got paid. As much as he loves Stevie, union rules is union rules.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

he got paid. As much as he loves Stevie, union rules is union rules.

Well, maybe Stevie got paid for singing with Vanessa too, that doesn't mean it wasn't totally a favor to Vanessa.

Michele

[Phil]

Michelle wrote:

No, I loved Cher as a member of Sonny and Cher, as a singer, comedian and entertainer within that construct. I didn't like her outside of it.

As for Mick, there are lots of people who know FM songs and like them quite a bit, have all the albums, but just see Mick as the drummer. Not a founder, not a glue that keeps the whole thing together. They don't delve into the entire history of a musical act. They don't read every interview or maybe they do read every interview and decided that despite his talent and contributions to the band, his personality is obnoxious.

Maybe they saw him up there with Samantha Fox and decided he was a loser, although his band is cool and their opinion of him has nothing to do with the band. Maybe they like Christine, Lindsey and Stevie and loathe Mick. It's not hard to dislike him and to also like the band at all.

What I don't understand is the (1) the whole "how can you call yourself a fan" argument, and (2) why it's necessary to like someone because you like their talent. So, he held the band together, good for him. I pay him with my money. I don't have to pay him with my heart.

As for calling yourself a fan, I am not a fan of anyone's if it means I have to meet certain criteria and believe and say only certain things in order to maintain my fanship. I define what my fanship means. It doesn't define me. What a "fan" is is as different as what every individual is.

By your standards, I am not a Fleetwood Mac fan and wouldn't want to be. I'm just an interested observer and I like it like that, because I don't want to follow any guidelines except for my own for how to display or express my admiration, affection, appreciation and respect.

I agree with Michelle's comments above. I happen to adore Phil Spector's skills as an arranger/producer, but perhaps not so much as a person...

By the way, I don't hold the Nazi/black-face debacle against John and Christine - I can appreciate that situation for what it most probably was, a drunken lark and nothing more. However, I don't care for John as a person. I consider him to be an arrogant, chauvinistic, misogynistic, abusive, dismissive arsehole. Undeniably talented as a musician and an integral contributor to the Mac over the years, but not someone I'd want to know.

[RockawayBlind]

Originally Posted by elle

but if these band members are over this, as they seem to be, i don't get why fans keep holding the grudge?

I don't hold a grudge against Mick. Frankly, I couldn't care less what he does or doesn't do. The question was asked, "Why do fans disdain Mick?" In my view, he has been disloyal to fellow band members and, to me, that shows a character flaw. It matters not to me whether those members have forgiven him. I hope they have. But their forgiveness doesn't change his character, does it?

[elle]

Originally Posted by RockawayBlind

I don't hold a grudge against Mick. Frankly, I couldn't care less what he does or doesn't do. The question was asked, "Why do fans disdain Mick?" In my view, he has been disloyal to fellow band members and, to me, that shows a character flaw. It matters not to me whether those members have forgiven him. I hope they have. But their forgiveness doesn't change his character, does it?

i do agree with your points and don't have a problem with any of this, and Michele stated similar points in her posts.

i guess my annoyance (which may or may not be slightly different from the original question / poster) is seeing repeated free-for-all dumping on Mick... you see dumping on Lindsey and someone will react and provide counterpoints; you see dumping on Stevie and tons of people will jump to defend her; but it almost seems that whenever SN and LB defenders don't feel like fighting with each other they all just dump on Mick instead and nobody defends him, ya know?

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

you see dumping on Stevie and tons of people will jump to defend her; but it almost seems that whenever SN and LB defenders don't feel like fighting with each other they all just dump on Mick instead and nobody defends him, ya know?

But what is Mick being attacked for? Maybe it's something he can't be defended about. If there's a reason to refute allegations against him maybe people would.

If he was attacked for ruining Tusk, then I would defend him. Mostly, he's attacked for things that can't be fully denied. Maybe people don't have counterpoints.

Michele