Relocated Christianity Topic

[Dex]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Dex,
I was just giving you a few simple examples that weren't
so personal. I don't want this thread to be about me, it
wasn't even started by me. Though I would be glad to
witness before anyone here.

It was originally about the Christian bashing that takes
place on here. Almost every thread that is political or
has to do with homosexuality, devolves into a free-for-all
against Christians and our beliefs.

I'm not asking you or anyone to take my word for it. Take
a glance through the Ledge they're easy to find.

My concern is honestly more about peoples souls - where
they end up, than about the persecution of Christians. If
you want to take it in that direction, all the better.

You did not give examples of persecution at all, though. That's my point. Those aren't incidences of persecution, however mild. Those are examples of a loss of Christian privilege in what has always officially been a secular egalitarian nation. I think the genuine confusion of the two concepts among many American Christians is something that's important to point out, so I wanted to highlight it. I think it's important to make people aware of the privileges they've enjoyed perhaps without realising it.

I think we can safely say that this topic as it has been relocated is more broadly about Christianity altogether and we can touch on all sorts of topics.

If it is souls that you are concerned about. It may interest you to know that I now live in a country which is officially Christian (unlike the US), prayer can be enforced in state schools etc. And yet the people here are, generally speaking, more openly irreligious than I've ever experienced in North America. Keeping religion on a relatively private level isn't harmful, and putting it out there on a public level isn't really helpful either. At the end of the day, people will believe what they will, and make their own spiritual choices.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by Dex

You did not give examples of persecution at all, though.

Those are examples of a loss of Christian privilege in what has always officially been a secular egalitarian nation. I think it's important to make people aware of the privileges they've enjoyed perhaps without realising it.


If it is souls that you are concerned about...

Keeping religion on a relatively private level isn't harmful, and putting it out there on a public level isn't really helpful either. At the end of the day, people will believe what they will, and make their own spiritual choices.

Persecution of Christians is an easy find. There are so many
examples where to begin? Just a few days ago four Christians
were killed by an Islamist in Egypt. And in Iran four Christians
were sentenced to 80 lashes for participating in communion.
Is that mild? What about some of the children that were shot
at one our American schools for being Christian (Columbine,
I believe - double check that later)?

If you don't see it - you don't want to see it.

A loss of Christian privilege is something I'll comment on later,
along with keeping our beliefs private.

[Dex]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Persecution of Christians is an easy find. There are so many
examples where to begin? Just a few days ago four Christians
were killed by an Islamist in Egypt. And in Iran four Christians
were sentenced to 80 lashes for participating in communion.
Is that mild? What about some of the children that were shot
at one our American schools for being Christian (Columbine,
I believe - double check that later)?

If you don't see it - you don't want to see it.

I think it was pretty clear that I was discussing the persecution of Christians in the southern United States, as per your life experiences. If you had mentioned Christian persecution in predominantly muslim countries I'd have totally been behind you. But that's completely changing the nature of this discussion. I think Christians who get lashed in Iran for their beliefs would be pretty annoyed at someone in the West treating a store not putting out a nativity display as something in the same category as their experiences.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by Dex

I think it was pretty clear that I was discussing the persecution of Christians in the southern United States, as per your life experiences.

I think Christians who get lashed in Iran for their beliefs would be pretty annoyed at someone in the West treating a store not putting out a nativity display as something in the same category as their experiences.

This thread was originally about Christian bashing and not
about me in particular. I believe I had already made it clear
that what I've personally went through wouldn't compare to
some Christians no matter where they reside.

Christian privilege is an interesting choice of words. Though
I don't know exactly what you mean, there has certainly been
an erosion of Christian rights (you may call them privileges).

As you seem to be concerned with my life as a Christian, I can
witness to you that even as a child I noticed a change in the way
Christians were treated in public schools. I started public school
in the early 1970's. We had bibles in our schools, we said the pledge
of allegiance with the words under God. And then sang "My
County, 'Tis Of Thee". And all these things were taken away in just
a matter of a few years. Freedom of religion is different than freedom
from religion. And freedom from patriotism must be in there too.

Not being too personal, but I can tell you if you're a Christian you
get treated differently in school. But you wouldn't call the being
persecuted - but at the very least it's bullying. And if I was
witness to it in my day, I can only imagine it's much worse today.

But in the end this turns out for the good of Christians...

Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds
of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad,
for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets
who were before you. Matthew 5:11,12

And how are we to keep our beliefs private?

You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and
it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men,
that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. Matthew
5:14,15,16.

[Dex]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

This thread was originally about Christian bashing and not
about me in particular. I believe I had already made it clear
that what I've personally went through wouldn't compare to
some Christians no matter where they reside.

I don't believe you did. You said "in my own way I've had to deal with persecution" after listing experiences which I maintain are not examples of persecution, and I believe that calling them such is an affront to truly persecuted groups, such as the Christians in middle eastern countries which you later invoked. That is what I take issue with. I didn't mean that persecution of Christianity does not exist at all in the world.

Christian privilege is an interesting choice of words. Though
I don't know exactly what you mean, there has certainly been
an erosion of Christian rights (you may call them privileges).

I will. I know many Christians from many parts of the western world and they all seem to enjoy the same rights that I do.

As you seem to be concerned with my life as a Christian, I can
witness to you that even as a child I noticed a change in the way
Christians were treated in public schools. I started public school
in the early 1970's. We had bibles in our schools, we said the pledge
of allegiance with the words under God. And then sang "My
County, 'Tis Of Thee". And all these things were taken away in just
a matter of a few years.

You brought up your life as a Christian initially. And the points you discussed when doing so brought to light certain issues I needed to take up, so I did *shrugs*. As for the above, I cannot see how any of that amounts to a loss of Christian rights. Just because changes are made and you happen to dislike them doesn't mean your rights are being taken away.

Not being too personal, but I can tell you if you're a Christian you
get treated differently in school. But you wouldn't call the being
persecuted - but at the very least it's bullying. And if I was
witness to it in my day, I can only imagine it's much worse today.

I will not deny that bullying against Christian students exists in schools today. That is a fact. Although whether bullying against Christian students matches or exceeds bullying against members of most any other religious group or minorities of any other kind is something I'm highly skeptical of.

But in the end this turns out for the good of Christians...

Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds
of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad,
for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets
who were before you. Matthew 5:11,12

Well, that's good.

And how are we to keep our beliefs private?

You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and
it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men,
that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. Matthew
5:14,15,16.

You do not have to keep your beliefs private. I would never ask you to do such. I meant keep them in the private sector while operating in an officially secular democracy. As in, not in the government. Not in public schools. Not in displays on city-owned property. Feel free to discuss your beliefs and identity with anyone you who will listen, wear a cross in public, etc. Those are your protected rights, which certainly have not been taken from you.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

But in no way am I implying that I've been persecuted as
some of His followers have.

^^Dex,
From an earlier post.

That will be the end of my personal replies about my own
life as it relates to being persecuted, bullied or just treated
in a less than respectful way for being a Christian. Again,
only as it relates to me. As a group or personal attack against
another Christian member of this board, of course I'll respond.

The proof is in the threads that I originally talked about as
far as the Christian bashing goes.

I will be glad to continue to talk about Christian beliefs such
as our salvation through Jesus Christ. And the upcoming events
that lead to Christ return.

[Dex]

You forgot the rest of it.

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

So yes in many ways I've had to deal with persecution because of my belief in
Christ. But it is expected. I'll have to find the verse, but Jesus told us we will
be persecuted. But in know way am I implying that I've been persecuted as
some of His followers have.

Yes, you are acknowledging that there is a difference, but you were still calling your experiences persecution of a sort. I think this is a genuine sentiment among many Christians in the west that we need to talk about because it reveals such a fundamental misunderstanding of what a "right" is versus a "privilege". Christians in the US have enjoyed the privilege of seeing their faith displayed so publicly and favoured by public bodies in their life and now we are seeing a (slight) waning of that. Fair enough. It's less fun for many than it used to be in some ways, perhaps. But confusing that with a loss of rights, as many are, is so off-base and frankly a little offensive that I need to say my bit.

You just struck a nerve with that one. I too have pretty much said what I need to and look forward to any other discussions this topic may bring.

[I'msoAfraid95]

I live in the middle of the bible belt. My whole family is Christian. That being said, I am tue least religious of my family. I am coming to terms with stuff about me that some "christians" want me to die because of it.

A lot of Christians around here are easily offended. Example: Retail stores now say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. This pisses off some Christians because they will not tolerate anything except what they believe. It's these "christians" that I have a problem with.

[estranged4life]

in the Belt Buckle of the Bible Belt, and religion still trips me out...and I'm a practicing Methodist!!!

It's funny, to the left I am too much to the right...to the right I am too much to the left...I am GLAD to be in the middle...LOL!!!

[Dex]

Originally Posted by I'msoAfraid95

A lot of Christians around here are easily offended. Example: Retail stores now say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. This pisses off some Christians because they will not tolerate anything except what they believe. It's these "christians" that I have a problem with.

I have family in Canada who find "Happy Holidays" a sore point, too. I don't quite get the upset. I mean, sure, it could be seen as a rather transparent and shallow attempt at being "inclusive", but is it so terrible? I live in the UK now where they say "Merry/Happy Christmas" unreservedly, and have now determined that whether you say one or the other has pretty much zero impact on your actual celebration or enjoyment of Christmas.

If these are the kinds of things that are of such grave concern to Christians in the US, then they are very well off indeed.

[bluefox4000]

I'm an Atheist.....raised Christian and I i loathe Organized religion. lots of religious people are cool. but in large groups they are intolerable.

I'm gonna run now, lol

Mick

[Dex]

Originally Posted by bluefox4000

I'm an Atheist.....raised Christian and I i loathe Organized religion. lots of religious people are cool. but in large groups they are intolerable.

I recently attended a large party, and as far as I could tell was the only non-Mormon in attendance.

It was actually really fantastic fun. Who knew!?

Organised religion doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but for some people it seems to work darn well.

[I'msoAfraid95]

Originally Posted by Dex

I have family in Canada who find "Happy Holidays" a sore point, too. I don't quite get the upset. I mean, sure, it could be seen as a rather transparent and shallow attempt at being "inclusive", but is it so terrible? I live in the UK now where they say "Merry/Happy Christmas" unreservedly, and have now determined that whether you say one or the other has pretty much zero impact on your actual celebration or enjoyment of Christmas.

If these are the kinds of things that are of such grave concern to Christians in the US, then they are very well off indeed.

Exactly! There's a lot of serious things occuring and you're worried about what a person's faith is?

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by I'msoAfraid95

Exactly! There's a lot of serious things occuring and you're worried about what a person's faith is?

Dex keeps bringing up things that seem petty to him,
but how in the world could one not be concerned about
another's faith? And I'm not talking about which particular
denomination you belong to.

If you believe in God, I don't know how you couldn't care
enough to talk to them about it. It should be the most
important thing in life.

None of us knows how many days we have. If you died
tonight do you know where you'd spend eternity? If your
sins have been covered by the Blood of Christ you can have
that assurance.

Don't push Christ away because of some of his followers.
None of us are in a state of perfection yet.

Sometimes I have to remind myself (quite often) that my
sins are forgiven. I don't mean that I have to remind myself
that I'm a Christian. I remind myself not to carry the guilt
of my many sins.

When you repent of your sins and accept Christ as your Savior,
not only are you forgiven but you don't have to carry around the
horrible guilt that sin brings.

[I'msoAfraid95]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Dex keeps bringing up things that seem petty to him,
but how in the world could one not be concerned about
another's faith? And I'm not talking about which particular
denomination you belong to.

If you believe in God, I don't know how you couldn't care
enough to talk to them about it. It should be the most
important thing in life.

None of us knows how many days we have. If you died
tonight do you know where you'd spend eternity? If your
sins have been covered by the Blood of Christ you can have
that assurance.

Don't push Christ away because of some of his followers.
None of us are in a state of perfection yet.

Sometimes I have to remind myself (quite often) that my
sins are forgiven. I don't mean that I have to remind myself
that I'm a Christian. I remind myself not to carry the guilt
of my many sins.

When you repent of your sins and accept Christ as your Savior,
not only are you forgiven but you don't have to carry around the
horrible guilt that sin brings.

Religion is one of the last things that I think of when talking or interacting with a person. I'm here for that person now, in the present. I will not bring it up because I believe that faith is something that is between a person and their God(s).

I am very skeptical of the bible( not God) because of all of the editing religious figures have done to it over the years. Plus, the translation from Hebrew to English in the 1600s( King James I of England) lost some things.
I am not going to turn myself around and be a person that I'm not. If God had wanted me that way, he would've done so. I believe that if you try to be like Christ ( ie: not judging, accepting, kind hearted etc) and believe in him, then you'll go to heaven not hell.