Pollstar Top Twenty Concerts

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by redbird

I don't know if this is overreaching but I feel that at least in the States, country music benefits a lot from the cultural/political polarization (the culture wars) that's snowballed in the last 20 years or so. People who like country music often like strictly country music, meanwhile people outside of it treat it like that embarrassing uncle at family reunions, so it really digs in to its niche very well and has its loyal base that's glued together perhaps by a cultural element.

To me, things seem nearly the opposite. I think it's more cross over than ever, going between political and cultural lines. Just as music genres have blurred and become hybrids of one another, so have their audiences.

I mean, sometimes things do get entrenched, but it seems to me that happens more outside of the music based on off-stage personalities. The music seemed to have wide appeal, but sometimes things are said outside of the music (Toby Keith, Dixie Chicks, etc.) that causes people to take sides.

Michele

[kak125]

Fleetwood Mac BOK Center Tulsa, Okla. May 1, 2013 $938,420 9.563 / 9.563 1 / 1 $149.50, $49.50 Live Nation

this billboard chart is updated every week. i saw fleetwood mac was on there four times last week. they must be slow in reporting the sales figures because these were for dates back in april and may.

http://www.billboard.com/biz/current-boxscore

[redbird]

Originally Posted by michelej1

To me, things seem nearly the opposite. I think it's more cross over than ever, going between political and cultural lines. Just as music genres have blurred and become hybrids of one another, so have their audiences.

I mean, sometimes things do get entrenched, but it seems to me that happens more outside of the music based on off-stage personalities. The music seemed to have wide appeal, but sometimes things are said outside of the music (Toby Keith, Dixie Chicks, etc.) that causes people to take sides.

Michele

I think there's increasing crossover between country and pop and there's always been a kinship between country and rock, but I think things like Tim McGraw's and Nelly's "Over and Over" and Brad Paisley's and LL Cool J's (puzzling) "Accidental Racist" are notable for their rareness, they're like attempts to reach across the aisle because attempts are necessary.

But even if there are a lot of hybrid genres now, I don't think that necessarily eats in to bedrock of country establishment. I grew up a fan of country radio, I adored Dwight Yoakam and Patty Loveless and all that, and I really can't stand country radio now. It seems to me there are far more mainstream country songs associated stridently and unsubtly (to the point of lyrical clunkiness) with things like patriotism, uncultured-and-proud-of-it attitudes, I'm-just-a-small-town-boy/girl sentiments, etc. Not all of it is stuff that offends me or anything, but I did feel it's kind of an in-your-face "Don't mistake which side of the culture war I'm on".

Then again since I haven't been able to stand mainstream country radio for a while, maybe I'm a few years behind. I think though that even if country has crossover appeal (I may underestimate how much it does ... but I still think that things like alternative country, folk, and bluegrass have more clout and further reach than just mainstream modern country, if not its numbers), it has something that you can't really find anywhere else for a segment of American culture, and that ensures it a loyal base.

But your argument is certainly strengthened by the fact that Taylor Swift and Keith Urban do have crossover appeal. It's very probably not just country-only fans lifting them up to such numbers, so I have to backtrack from what I said a bit in attributing polarization as a cause of what we're seeing here.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by redbird

I think there's increasing crossover between country and pop and there's always been a kinship between country and rock, but I think things like Tim McGraw's and Nelly's "Over and Over" and Brad Paisley's and LL Cool J's (puzzling) "Accidental Racist" are notable for their rareness, they're like attempts to reach across the aisle because attempts are necessary.

Well, I don't even consider such contrivances music for the most part. And I wasn't talking about songs that deliberately aim to state a message. I'm just thinking of hearing Come Over on a pop station and liking it so much that I went to look at the video and I thought to myself, "Dang, Kenny is looking hawt." Country stars weren't getting my attention like that in the past. I mean there were exceptions like Dolly Parton, but they just weren't on my radar as a whole, because they weren't mainstream. I mean you'd get Mel Tillis and Glenn Campbell and I was hearing Kenny Rogers on my oldies station (Ruby, Don't Take Your Love to Town) even before he became a massive success. But most of country was on some static-filled AM station that I never accessed on my dial.

Now, I listen to more country than anything else and I didn't go searching for it. It kind of took over.

I don't care for the patriotic songs and as far as values go, I know there will be some songs like Cornbread and Chicken that make me go, "Really? Seriously?" I mean, I'm not offended actually, but it is, though very amusing, an insult RED STATE song that would drive me away from the genre if they were all like that. But for the most part, the songs that just eschew the big city life and promote small town values don't push me away, even though I'm a big city gal, born in Detroit, living in Los Angeles.

I mean, no offense to my beloved Christine, but there are times in my life where I'd have rather heard Tim McGraw's Everywhere over hers.

But that's not true today, Christine. So, if you want to play that in London ...

Michele

[redbird]

I should clarify, I never meant that music has become more polarized, rather that there was a cultural polarization that maybe benefited a certain genre of music because that genre of music could be said to fulfill a certain social need (akin to more people attending church ... kind of ... ). The effect wouldn't have to be limited to artists who make explicit political statements in their music, it could've been a subtle spill-over thing.

But I was just tossing it out there as a possibility, not married to the idea.

I'm not at all opposed to things like small town values in and of themselves, I like variety, I just felt like songs were becoming statements of What Country Is/Who Country Listeners Are, even if (or maybe as a result of how) they were becoming poorly written. A song like "Time Marches On" by Tracy Lawrence, the lyrics of that song -- which isn't even that old -- seemed like genuine poetry to me, colloquial as it was, and comparing that to something like Carrie Underwood's "Before He Cheats", even though I can appreciate the sentiment and spirit, I don't think the lyrics can even compare in sophistication ... although I'm not saying "Before He Cheats" is especially politically or subculturally coded, I just can't recall the lyrics of songs I really dislike so that comes to mind. Even Toby Keith, whose politics I don't share much fwiw, I bought a CD of his back in the day and I genuinely adored songs like "Tired", but his newer songs seem far less artful (which I don't think has to happen just because the genre is country). My waning appreciation for mainstream country also happened along the same timeline that pop acts like Britney Spears and N'Sync started taking over the pop scene, which is an unpopular time for music for a lot of music critics/snobs/whatever outside of country, so I don't think it's isolated to country music or anything. Lots of things going on.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by redbird

Even Toby Keith, whose politics I don't share much fwiw, I bought a CD of his back in the day and I genuinely adored songs like "Tired", but his newer songs seem far less artful (which I don't think has to happen just because the genre is country).

I've thought that about Toby and about a lot of artists that peaked (to me) 10 or 15 years ago like Melissa Etheridge and Mary Chapin Carpenter (not that I'm Feeling Lucky was a song of substance, but she had them). They don't seem to be writing as deeply as they once did. Then again, some find that to be true of IYD, when they compare it to Stevie's older songs.

Michele

[redbird]

Yes you're right, a lot of artists peak at a certain stage. But then there are new artists who take their place. For me country mostly stopped giving me that in an available radio format.

"I Feel Lucky" was a damn fine song, as is any song that name drops Lyle Lovett and Dwight Yoakam I mean, substantial, no, but it was really just a party song, it sounded great and the lyrics weren't at all awkward and had their own sort of ambition. Like "Down at the Twist and Shout".

[Iktomi]

But even if there are a lot of hybrid genres now, I don't think that necessarily eats in to bedrock of country establishment. I grew up a fan of country radio, I adored Dwight Yoakam and Patty Loveless and all that, and I really can't stand country radio now. It seems to me there are far more mainstream country songs associated stridently and unsubtly (to the point of lyrical clunkiness) with things like patriotism, uncultured-and-proud-of-it attitudes, I'm-just-a-small-town-boy/girl sentiments, etc. Not all of it is stuff that offends me or anything, but I did feel it's kind of an in-your-face "Don't mistake which side of the culture war I'm on".

As a fan of old country music and early 90's country music, I COMPLETELY agree with you on this. While I did enjoy Shania Twain and Garth Brooks, country music really changed directions after them, particularly in the late 90s, and then it changed again post-911.

I'm from a tribal community, and country music and rap were both huge here in the 80s and 90s, and it's probably one of the few places where rap songs would play right after country songs. And I think country music was very popular with Native people because it often spoke to our rural lives, our relationships, and our familial values, but the music then rarely ever had the nationalistic leanings that it now has today. The music I hear today doesn't really relate to my rural, country life, as a Native person, because these songs come primarily from a "white" small-town, nationalistic perspective. This music, as you mentioned, pits me against it, and excludes me culturally. The old country music didn't have the same political and nationalistic elements to it either that is so common now. If it did have patriotic elements to it, it wasn't done in a way that felt divisive or exclusive, or felt self-righteous. Songs like Time Marches On or Where the Corn Don't Grow have that same sense of humility and simplicity that I find always found endearing within the genre.

In regards to Taylor Swift, Kenny Chesney, Keith Urban, etc. I don't even touch that stuff. That's not country music, but I think most older country music fans recognize that to some degree.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by redbird

Yes you're right, a lot of artists peak at a certain stage. But then there are new artists who take their place. For me country mostly stopped giving me that in an available radio format.

"I Feel Lucky" was a damn fine song, as is any song that name drops Lyle Lovett and Dwight Yoakam

Yes, the namedropping itself has become a cottage industry. Sometimes I think they believe they've finished writing a song and have done their job, if they just throw in a Hank Williams reference.

Thinking of the concert figures, I'm not surprised about Taylor Swift because of her age demographic. I think young people will go see anyone in concert (i.e. Justin Bieber). It doesn't matter what kind of show they put on. But I guess I am surprised that the older country stars are selling out arenas.

As far as available radio formats go, it makes me wonder what's out there that you have to explore in order to find. I've never looked. It's easy to find traditional country on Sirius/XM so you can listen to classic music from the legends 24/7. But are there new country artists out there who are creating old school country music, but just aren't getting the airplay or exposure? Like a country version of indie, maybe. I don't know, because I've never really tried to find them.

I like music that tells a story and country seems to do that more than other genres. I think that's why I veer to it. One of my earliest musical memories is the pop song Honey by Bobby Goldsboro and I would cry every time I heard it. There are a lot of country songs that follow that format, introduction, dramatic event, conclusion and I remain a sucker for it. Actually, I like Michael Jackson's Billie Jean because it tells a story too. I'm kind of easy that way.

Michele