Say You Will sales ten years after release

[secret love]

Originally Posted by redbird

For me the best songs on this album are just so much better than the worst ones, I can't figure out why they're together except that they were ready to go. But then as someone else pointed out, what's good and what's bad is subjective and we all have different opinions. I feel like the creme de la creme of SYW is only 10-12 songs, but I wouldn't need to cut that many so long as I could be rid of "Say You Will" and especially "What's the World Coming To". Lindsey may have done amazing things on this record, but o h m y g o d that song is such pap. The other 16 songs I can deal with. Even though I think that "Illume" and "Silver Girl" are a little too awkward at points, and "Peacekeeper" and "Steal Your Heart Away" are also a little bland (not nearly as bad as WTWCT). "Come" and "Goodbye Baby" aren't especially meaningful to me but I can appreciate them.

I always think of SYW as two albums, but not necessary the Stevie solo album + the Lindsey solo album, rather the album I want and the album I don't But yes it's subjective. Maybe it's my attention span at fault; I really like albums to be artistic statements in themselves, either that or retrospective compilations, and I feel like SYW would hold my attention more if it was shorter and told more of a story. It doesn't fascinate me the way double-album Tusk did, I mean, at least 8 of the songs are ostensibly designed to be radio-friendly (but I don't like 2003 radio the way I like 1977 radio, granted I've only heard 1977 radio through the oldies station), and some of that feels a lot like filler to me.

I do have a personal version of SYW I put on my own iPod, but it's not perfect either so I don't imagine I could do sooo much better. For one, Stevie's songs are way more "topical" in that, if this is the story of Fleetwood Mac since the The Dance reunion, all the songs I'd keep of hers are either about Lindsey to some extent or about herself in the context of relationships, while Lindsey's got songs about the news media and politics and whatnot. I'm sure someone else could make a sound argument against my choices. (If anyone cares, "Miranda", "Thrown Down" and "Bleed to Love Her" would be the first three spots in some order, then "Murrow" followed by "Everybody Finds Out" followed by "Smile At You" as the **** Just Got Real part of the album, then "Red Rover" as a breather, and then it has to end with "Running Through the Garden", "Destiny Rules", and "Say Goodbye".)

This thread did make me re-listen to the album again, and boy "Say Goodbye" really is much better slowed down ala the live performances. Still a moving song though. "I fall down, I get up" has become something of a coping mechanism for me personally, hahah, glad to know I'm not the only one Lindsey.

(I'm sorry I know this thread is a month old, I'm bored and I didn't get to go to my concert and I needed to talk Mac )

Funny that you say you can't stand What's the World Coming To ...I really like it and find it quite endearing. It sounds like a political statement to me almost (like Peacekeeper) - it's a nice little departure from the Mac's usual subject matter (love, relationships, fellow band members). Say You Will I fell in love with from the first listen and it also helped to inspire me to write my first song.

I hated Say Goodbye at first because it sounded very cliched to my ear and instrumentally quite bland. However it has grown on me particularly after viewing the professionally shot 2003 (Live in Boston) and 2005 (Live at the Bass Performance Hall) live performances of the song - there is some beauty in these gentle performances that did not really translate well on to tape in my opinion. Goodbye Baby is beautiful...for me it's more about end of life than the end of Stevie and Lindsey's relationship. If you were to interpret the lyrics literally it could be about an abortion, or a miscarriage...but who knows?

Thrown Down and Steal Your Heart Away were the stand out tracks for me on the Say You Will record. I know Thrown Down was written in 1997 and that Stevie said it is about Lindsey...but this doesn't really make sense to me (unless the song is a complete lie hehe!). "He fell for her again/She watched it happen" and "Maybe now he could prove to her that he could be good for her and that they should be together" don't really fit with what BN were saying at the time, e.g. Lindsey suggesting (tongue in cheek/sarcastically) that he and Stevie might hook up again sometime soon (It was a joke - he did not seem to have any desire for this to happen)... Stevie responding with "Over my dead body"

Anyway, Thrown Down is a great song and Steal Your Heart Away is too - it's just wonderful. I really liked Say You Will as a complete album. Could have done without Murrow, Red Rover, Smile at You, Say Goodbye. The Dance version of Bleed to Love Her is my favourite but I like both versions (live and studio). SYW is definitely reminiscent of Tusk (Tusk is obviously a superior product, but both albums are experimental to varying degrees, both are double albums). I loved Stevie's bonus track Not Make Believe - love: "It hurts my self esteem, it hurts my every-thing. I am reeling ooh it hurts my feelings"!

SYW does feel like the Stevie show to me though - let's face it, Lindsey put just two new songs on the table (I think they were WTWCT and Peacekeeper). Stevie wrote four great new songs with Fleetwood Mac in mind (SYW, Illume, Destiny Rules, Silver Girl) and finally finished and recorded some great demos diehard fans no doubt had been wanting for years ... she didn't just lift the majority of her contribution of songs off what was intended to be a solo record like Lindsey. That said - they both brought their A-game. Was a shame Stevie only performed two of her own SYW songs on the 2003-2004 world tour. Would have been good to keep Running Through the Garden and Destiny Rules in the set, even better have all the eight "new" songs played on opening night plus Steal Your Heart Away and Thrown Down.

This post has gone on much too long ... sorry guys! Here's something I thought might be worth sharing while I think of it (writing about Goodbye Baby made me think of this song for some reason... if you haven't heard it do yourself a favour and give it a listen!).

Sigh ... so many great unreleased songs to her name and Stevie still will not contribute to a new Fleetwood Mac album...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UurPDrrRe4

[MikeVielhaber]

Originally Posted by secret love

SYW is definitely reminiscent of Tusk (Tusk is obviously a superior product, but both albums are experimental to varying degrees, both are double albums).

This was discussed on another music forum I frequent. I think there's a difference between a double album and a long single CD album. It has to do with the artist's intent. A single album and a double album are usually different in more than just length. They even went on and on about double vs. single in the documentary with single winning out (Lindsey being the only advocate for double). So I view SYW as a single album and Tusk a double even though SYW is (barely) longer, time wise.

[KarmaContestant]

I wish Fleetwood Mac had performed the entire SYW album when they toured in 2003.

They could have done some old hits for a four or six song encore.

Siouxsie just peformed at Yoko Ono's Meltdown in London, and she performed the Banshees entire third album, in the original tracklist order, took a break, then came out and did another 10 songs or so to satisfy the audience craving for 'hits'.

[secret love]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

I wish Fleetwood Mac had performed the entire SYW album when they toured in 2003.

They could have done some old hits for a four or six song encore.

Siouxsie just peformed at Yoko Ono's Meltdown in London, and she performed the Banshees entire third album, in the original tracklist order, took a break, then came out and did another 10 songs or so to satisfy the audience craving for 'hits'.

That would have been awesome! Though when Fleetwood Mac can't even bring themselves to play all four songs on their EP live, it does seem unlikely that they would play more than the usual four to six songs live from any future full-length albums with accompanying tours.

I've read about other artists playing entire albums start to finish at their concerts - what I read said they normally play the non-album tracks first then shoot right into the album. The reverse of that as you described could work well too - guess it just depends on the artist/band as to how they arrange the setlist.

What's the general feeling amongst Ledgies regarding the likelihood of at least one final Fleetwood Mac album? Which band members (past and present) do we think will be involved? (These questions probably belong in a different thread)

Regarding the original poster's concern with SYW sales ten years after release, I reckon it would have achieved platinum status by now. Interesting how in 1979-1980 Tusk achieved double platinum status (possibly triple or quadruple platinum by now maybe) but was regarded as a commercial failure. I bet Lindsey, Mick, John and Stevie would be thrilled to achieve double platinum sales in today's climate!

How times change...

[KarmaContestant]

Originally Posted by secret love

That would have been awesome! Though when Fleetwood Mac can't even bring themselves to play all four songs on their EP live, it does seem unlikely that they would play more than the usual four to six songs live from any future full-length albums with accompanying tours.

I've read about other artists playing entire albums start to finish at their concerts - what I read said they normally play the non-album tracks first then shoot right into the album. The reverse of that as you described could work well too - guess it just depends on the artist/band as to how they arrange the setlist.

Yeah... Fleetwood Mac doing this type of thing is pretty unlikely to ever happen, but I think it's a great way to do a show when promoting a new album.

For SYW, it might have been harder to find room for fan favorites only because the album is already 18 tracks. But for the current tour? An entire album would be easy, and still leave enough room in the setlist for a dozen top-40 tracks. They could even mix it up - perform Mirage one night, and Rumours the next, and Tango the following show. Of course....without Christine, the magic of performing an entire album would be greatly diminished.

And I'm not sure Stevie can remember that many lyrics.

[redbird]

secret love,

Stevie might have said "Over my dead body" out loud but that doesn't mean part of her didn't wanted to be persuaded (and Lindsey would have to "prove to her" that it wouldn't be dark and miserable again). And I'm not the biggest expert on the topic but Lindsey's body language in the 5-member interview for the The Dance reunion (April 97?) kinda makes me think he was pretty sincerely interested. I'm sure it's covered in other threads though.

About the songs' sources: if Lindsey's songs come from solo projects, if Stevie's come from old demos, it doesn't really affect my appreciation of the album so long as the songs are well written, well produced, well performed, and hopefully hang together. Stevie writes in such a way that she can separate when she's writing specifically *for* Fleetwood Mac and when she's not. Christine never wrote that way, though, and maybe Lindsey's creative process can't strictly be fit into that model either.

For whatever reason I find the disparate decadence on Tusk more interesting than SYW, but as this goes to show, different strokes for different folks