Say You Will sales ten years after release

[KenB]

Originally Posted by RockawayBlind

Someone made a point about singles. Not only has FM kind of lost its way on picking the right singles but track sequencing has also been poor. I know Lindsey wanted to make a point with Murrow, but the song didn't belong where it is, and "What's the World Coming To," though pleasant enough, is almost too bland for a first track. "Right Place to Fade" would have been a perfect opener.

The most radio-friendly songs on SYW are Thrown Down, What's the World Coming To, and Bleed to Love Her. I would have released them as singles in that order. I'd love to hear the specifics of Stevie's complaints about the production of Thrown Down, since for me it's both the best-produced track on the album and the poppiest. The production on it actually makes me think of a contemporary "Gypsy," sound-wise.

I actually really love a number of songs from SYW. Most of them are Lindsey's. Honestly, the only Stevie songs on it that I listen to today are Thrown Down, Goodbye Baby (I love its gentle, lullaby-like quality), and Destiny Rules. The rest of her SYW songs just lack basic melodies; they nearly all have this minor-key, drone-y quality that makes me impatient for a chord change to come along. Illume is the worst in that regard.

I disagree with the person who said Bleed to Love Her is overproduced. I love how layered it is, and I find it passionate, very pretty, and emotionally moving.

Also, I even *thought* I loved the much-maligned Say Goodbye... until I heard the live version. I still like the studio version, but slowing it down really brings out the beauty and tenderness in the song. What would have been awesome on the new EP is a new studio version of SG that's closer to the live version. (Is there a very clean-sounding live recording of SG out there anywhere?)

[bethelblues]

Originally Posted by KenB

I disagree with the person who said Bleed to Love Her is overproduced. I love how layered it is, and I find it passionate, very pretty, and emotionally moving.

I was the person. Let me explain what I think: I think Lindsey tends to overproduce his vocals on studio recordings, which lose the roughness of his current voice and in some ways try to mirror his much younger and higher sound. I actually think that Lindsey has a very feminine style of singing in his studio work (not that that is a bad thing). I see that here in Bleed to Love Her, which I believe absolutely pales to its live performance from The Dance which had so much passion. The song, in my opinion, became merely ordinary with its way overbearing electronic drum beat and is much weaker than its less complex version, arguably one of the best Lindsey has written. And that's because it's missing the raw emotion he brings to his concert vocals. It was by far my favorite of their new songs performed for The Dance.

[Jondalar]

The album feels uneven.

Well I like almost all Lindseys song on the album and his songs would make an excellent solo album. I thought Lindsey should of had 4 singles from this album, but radio put them out to pasture.

I don't think Stevie's songs are as good as his. The production on Illume and Thrown Down is stellar but I don't like the lyrics at all. Doesn't make a lick of sense, and if someone has to constantly explain the meaning of a song, there is a problem. I think the song Goodbye Baby is very weak. I like the words to Silver Girl, but its blah. Everybody Finds Out doesn't feel right on Fleetwood Mac Album. Neither does Running through the Garden. I do think that her work on this album was better than TISL. Destiny Rules was my favorite song from her on this album.

They just don't sound like a group.

[bluefox4000]

I remember being so excited about coming to Bleed to Love her.....And then my face just Deflating. Lindsey.......What. Did. You. Do????? Talk about killing a song with just so many layers of crap. First Buckingham guitar solo that was boring too.

I'll stick to the Dance on this one.

Mick

[aleuzzi]

I've come to really appreciate Say You Will. It has so much music. Generous! It's uneven and occasionally scattershot but overall the quality is pretty high. It's certainly the best MAC studio album since Mirage, I think.

But I was--and continue to be--way more amped about In the Meantime, which has more classic Mac music on it than the actual Mac album.

[StevieNicksfann]

I love all of Stevie's songs on the album (and yes there songs of hers I don't like) including Not Make Believe which should have been a single imo. I also usually like a lot of Lindsey's stuff (I love all 3 of his compositions on the EP) but only Miranda, Bleed To Love Her, and Steal Your Heart Away really do anything for me - although I can tolerate WTWCT and Peacekeeper. I do like the live version of Say Goodbye. The rest just don't speak to me.

Single choices imho:


Thrown Down
Miranda
Say You Will
Steal Your Heart Away
Not Make Believe
Bleed To Love Her
Running Through The Garden
Goodbye Baby

I go back and forth on Destiny Rules and Everybody Finds Out. But bottom line that's how strong I think Stevie's contributions were.

[bethelblues]

Originally Posted by bluefox4000

I remember being so excited about coming to Bleed to Love her.....And then my face just Deflating. Lindsey.......What. Did. You. Do????? Talk about killing a song with just so many layers of crap. First Buckingham guitar solo that was boring too.

Yeah, my feelings exactly.

Originally Posted by Jondalar

...but I don't like the lyrics at all. Doesn't make a lick of sense, and if someone has to constantly explain the meaning of a song, there is a problem.

This is something keen to pick up on. When people don't get what the person is singing about, then their ideas don't translate and the music fails to resonate as strongly with the target audience. The singles have to do that first and foremost. As much as I love the opening to Thrown Down and think it's a really catchy song, there are certainly some weird lyric choices. Apparently, some people think this song (along with Fall From Grace) was written about what may have happened in 1997. That Lindsey had been flirting with Stevie during The Dance (see the 5-member interview on YouTube), and they quite possibly rekindled their relationship in an affair when Lindsey found out his girlfriend was pregnant. I asked about this in the Stevie and Lindsey intimacy thread, and it seems like it is a theory that's been around. But for the casual listener, can they actually get any sense of that through the song?

[KenB]

Originally Posted by bluefox4000

I remember being so excited about coming to Bleed to Love her.....And then my face just Deflating. Lindsey.......What. Did. You. Do????? Talk about killing a song with just so many layers of crap. First Buckingham guitar solo that was boring too.

I'll stick to the Dance on this one.

Mick

Huh. I just don't get it. I just went back and listened to Bleed to Love Her on "The Dance" again, and I honestly don't hear how the live version is so much better. I do agree that Lindsey's vocal is rawer on the live version and maybe too processed on SYW. But apart from that one element, I prefer the production on the studio track. I *love* the extended ending, from the texture of the guitar to the solo itself. And I don't hear the mechanized percussion others have mentioned, except a bit near the beginning before Mick kicks in, and it just doesn't bother me there. For me, the SYV version of Bleed to Love Her is one of Lindsey's all-time high points with Mac.

[MikeVielhaber]

Originally Posted by KenB

Huh. I just don't get it. I just went back and listened to Bleed to Love Her on "The Dance" again, and I honestly don't hear how the live version is so much better. I do agree that Lindsey's vocal is rawer on the live version and maybe too processed on SYW. But apart from that one element, I prefer the production on the studio track. I *love* the extended ending, from the texture of the guitar to the solo itself. And I don't hear the mechanized percussion others have mentioned, except a bit near the beginning before Mick kicks in, and it just doesn't bother me there. For me, the SYV version of Bleed to Love Her is one of Lindsey's all-time high points with Mac.

I definitely think the ending of the studio version is better. And the bridge is pushing his vocal range a bit on The Dance version. Otherwise, they're equal to me.

[AbbiJoy78]

Say You Will was the first Fleetwood Mac album that came out when I was a big fan. For me it was like an event, and it was around my birthday and I played it that whole month of May....and then in the middle of that month, that was when the tour was in my area and I saw two shows. So it was like this fan-overload for me, and that MAY have biased why I loved this album SO much. All of the above played its part: first album as a real fan, a tour right away to hear these songs live --so soon into getting the album, and all of this feeling like a great b-day present. For others who have been a fan since the beginning, maybe this album fell short for you, or was too all-over-the place. For ME, it was 18 songs of ecstacy LOL. I mean the album went on and on.

Parts of it seemed like a Trouble In Shangri-La Part 2. But I loved that album too. I got into that WAY more than I could with In Your Dreams. So I really loved Stevie's songs on SYW. And Lindsey's were all good too.

Yes it may be like two solo albums together, but when you have Stevie's vocals in the background on a Lindsey song, and vice versa, and then the production factor, well...then it becomes FM. And finally Sad Angel brings some of that back for me this year!

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by AbbiJoy78

Say You Will was the first Fleetwood Mac album that came out when I was a big fan. For me it was like an event,

Yes, I can understand this. It's how I felt about Mirage. I became a fan before it was released and it was the first album I had time to anticipate. I used to go to the library and look at Billboard, because a subscription was too much for me to afford and I'd go to the record store and they would have these "new release" press memos that I would ask the clerk if I could see. I was just waiting for it.

Michele

[RockawayBlind]

Originally Posted by KenB

The most radio-friendly songs on SYW are Thrown Down, What's the World Coming To, and Bleed to Love Her. I would have released them as singles in that order.

I think SYW is also a pretty good single, though the song is a bit dull. In my sequencing, I front-load the album with these songs because they are more commercially appealing. In the old days, bands would put the better songs, or the ones they thought would be singles, up front. SYW suffers in this regard because it gets too weird too quickly.

[michelej1]

Yes, I'm no fan of Over and Over, but I think the first 3 songs do give you a good representation of what you're going to find on that looong album.

SYW needed to do that. Open with Say You Will and Peacekeeper .

Michele