The Chick Fil A Flap

olive · #1 08-06-2012, 05:38 PM

Sad but true

sodascouts · #2 08-07-2012, 11:42 AM

Debate will never be productive as long as each side is constantly vilifying and insulting the other.

HejiraNYC · #3 08-07-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Debate will never be productive as long as each side is constantly vilifying and insulting the other.

There really is no debate here. You can't make a case based on fact, logic, reason and humanity when the counter-argument is based purely on ancient stories that have been re-transcribed and (mis-)interpreted a gazillion times through the years or on fabricated pseudo-science funded by hate groups. There is a reason why, time and time again, the defenders of "traditional marriage" have lost every court case and every appeal that they have pushed: one cannot defend the indefensible. It's time to move beyond the useless debates and start effecting policy- through either legislative or judicial means. Who cares what the public may or may not think about an issue that is 150% a personal decision made between two consenting adults that does not affect anyone else in the slightest. History has proven time and time again that society is better off when civil rights are strengthened for all people.

sodascouts · #4 08-07-2012, 12:14 PM

Court cases are debates, in miniature. I think it's pretty evident that it's reasonable debate that enables the progression of gay rights, not the shouting of insults.

HejiraNYC · #5 08-07-2012, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Court cases are debates, in miniature. I think it's pretty evident that it's reasonable debate that enables the progression of gay rights, not the shouting of insults.

Is there really a "reasonable" debate against same sex marriage?

Please, someone somewhere offer one legitimate public interest that is served by preventing marriage equality for GLBT. I'm begging all of you to come up with something so we can have a civil discussion!

sodascouts · #6 08-07-2012, 12:31 PM

This thread is about responses to Cathy's interview in that Christian magazine. The ugly comments that have resulted from both sides benefit no one.

iamnotafraid · #7 08-07-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

There really is no debate here. You can't make a case based on fact, logic, reason and humanity when the counter-argument is based purely on ancient stories that have been re-transcribed and (mis-)interpreted a gazillion times through the years...

HejiraNYC,
Do you deny that Jesus is the Christ?

I'm not asking for a diatribe, just a yes or no.

louielouie2000 · #8 08-07-2012, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

HejiraNYC,
Do you deny that Jesus is the Christ?

I'm not asking for a diatribe, just a yes or no.

See? To me, religion has absolutely zero relevence in this issue... it is simply a distractive wedge. Folks who are fighting for gay marriage are not doing so to break the back of organized religion; they are pushing for equal protection & opportunity under the law. The US may be an overwhelmingly Christian nation, but it is not a theocracy, and our 200+ year old constitution lays that out pretty clearly. Gay marriage proponents are not fighting for the church to recognize or condone their unions... they are simply pushing for equality under the law. This boils down to economics, not religion. It is my opinion that individual churches should be allowed to decide whether or not they wish to recognize or perform same sex unions under the protective umbrella of religious freedom. However, every state should recognize same sex unions legally so that homosexual couples have the same legal protections & economic advantages as their heterosexual counterparts.

HejiraNYC · #9 08-07-2012, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

See? To me, religion has absolutely zero relevence in this issue... it is simply a distractive wedge. Folks who are fighting for gay marriage are not doing so to break the back of organized religion; they are pushing for equal protection & opportunity under the law. The US may be an overwhelmingly Christian nation, but it is not a theocracy, and our 200+ year old constitution lays that out pretty clearly. Gay marriage proponents are not fighting for the church to recognize or condone their unions... they are simply pushing for equality under the law. This boils down to economics, not religion. It is my opinion that individual churches should be allowed to decide whether or not they wish to recognize or perform same sex unions under the protective umbrella of religious freedom. However, every state should recognize same sex unions legally so that homosexual couples have the same legal protections & economic advantages as their heterosexual counterparts.

See... I sometimes wonder whether people are being willfully ignorant about the founding principles of the U.S. and the constitution, or whether people just regurgitate the talking points they hear on Faux News because they think they sound kinda clever. And what of all of the hullabaloo about the so-called "war on religion." Really? GLBT individuals having the right to marry the person of their choosing is tantamount to a war on religion? Are we burning bibles? Burning churches? Throwing Christians into an arena full of lions? In the U.S., we are supposed to have freedom of religion as well as freedom from religion. I will defend to the death the right of any American to worship anything they want to worship, whether it's some surfer dude wearing a robe or some writer of mediocre science fiction novels. Just as long as they keep their religion to themselves and stop meddling in other people's lives about matters that have nothing to do with them.

HejiraNYC · #10 08-07-2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

HejiraNYC,
Do you deny that Jesus is the Christ?

I'm not asking for a diatribe, just a yes or no.

I think you just proved my point.

iamnotafraid · #11 08-07-2012, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I think you just proved my point.

And unfortunately you just proved mine.
One day you will have to stand before Jesus,
the one you openly mock.

Louielouie,
The reason I asked Hejira that was because of
what he wrote. I wasn't going to even comment
this time in this particular thread. But in trying
to make his point, he always puts down Christian
beliefs.

And even though you and I (and others) disagree
on this issue, at least some do so in a more civil manner.

I believe it's more than just Christians trying to control
the way others live. It affects us too. Since God punishes
sin, we believe that we also will be punished for allowing
it (gay marriage, homosexual rights) to be legal, at least
in the eyes of man.

We all sin, I certainly do. That why our only hope is Christ
Jesus.

BombaySapphire3 · #12 08-07-2012, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

And unfortunately you just proved mine.
One day you will have to stand before Jesus,
the one you openly mock.

Louielouie,
The reason I asked Hejira that was because of
what he wrote. I wasn't going to even comment
this time in this particular thread. But in trying
to make his point, he always puts down Christian
beliefs.

And even though you and I (and others) disagree
on this issue, at least some do so in a more civil manner.

I believe it's more than just Christians trying to control
the way others live. It affects us too. Since God punishes
sin, we believe that we also will be punished for allowing
it (gay marriage, homosexual rights) to be legal, at least
in the eyes of man.

We all sin, I certainly do. That why our only hope is Christ
Jesus.

If you have been eatting shellfish and wearing buttons on your clothing that is also a sin.

HejiraNYC · #13 08-07-2012, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

And unfortunately you just proved mine.
The reason I asked Hejira ... always puts down Christian
beliefs.

I believe it's more than just Christians trying to control
the way others live. It affects us too. Since God punishes
sin, we believe that we also will be punished for allowing
it (gay marriage, homosexual rights) to be legal, at least
in the eyes of man.

We all sin, I certainly do. That why our only hope is Christ
Jesus.

I would remind you that, um... Jesus supposedly died for your sins so that you won't get punished by God for all of those pesky sins that you commit every day of your life. Perhaps you would be higher up on the VIP list to get into heaven if you worried about all of your own sins rather than worrying about others' sins? How does that old saying go about those without sin casting stones...

Anyway, can we change the subject... I find the topic of Mormon undergarments a lot more interesting.