Stevie, Lindsey or Christine?

[MacShadowsBall]

Originally Posted by elle

well, i am definitely a LB and not FM fan. but i do check and post here. and if i'm really really bored i check SN forum to see whether anybody's bashing lindsey. if they are, i even sometimes post there (after i tone down several notches what i initially want to say) - and most of SN forum posters promptly ignore what i have to say!

Not that one can't be both FM fan and a fan of the member's themselves and their respective solo careers.

I've found the "Preview Post" feature works wonders. Preview it, read over it, hit reply, log out and run away!

Originally Posted by elle

hmm, what do you want them to do?! those are their songs! just like oh well or man of the world are peter green's songs. otherwise you'd have a situation like CCW suing fogerty and he was not allowed to perform his own songs. i guess mick can become desperate and try to do that to lindsey and stevie, but i'm pretty sure they own most of the rights to songs they wrote.

...call them Fleetwood Mac songs!

Question for you, elle - how many Fleetwood Mac songs does Lindsey perform on his solo tours/performances? Don't wanna get away from topic, just curious about his solo shows, partly in comparsion to Stevie's solo shows.

EDIT: didn't want to double post

I made myself a playlist of my favorite Christine and Stevie's, Fleetwood Mac songs.

Christine - 11 songs
Stevie - 6 songs

...so for me twice as many Christine songs made my playlist. I found myself removing Stevie's songs, esp her early Mac and later Mac songs. However the remaining 6 songs, I'm fairly hardcore about. Where as with Christine's, I'm only hardcore about two or three of them. Does that make sense?

[elle]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

Not that one can't be both FM fan and a fan of the member's themselves and their respective solo careers.

one can, sure! but when i listen to FM songs i find myself skipping over most of SN or CM songs. the only studio FM albums i own are Tusk and SYW. other than hits, i barely know other Mirage and TITN songs and when there was a poll comparing 2 albums i had to go on youtube to listen to songs so i can make more-less informed decision. in contrast, i own every studio and live album, DVD and blu-ray LB ever put out solo. so - make your own conclusions .

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

Question for you, elle - how many Fleetwood Mac songs does Lindsey perform on his solo tours/performances? Don't wanna get away from topic, just curious about his solo shows, partly in comparsion to Stevie's solo shows.

on SWS tour, LB did 6 FM songs, in the 19-song setlist all together.

he said he's trying to keep FM songs to a minimum during solo tours. btw did you hear he will tour SOLO (alone!! with just his guitar) this late spring and summer?!

ok, back to your question: he did NGBA, BL, SHN, Tusk, ISA, GYOW during SWS tour.

how many FM songs does stevie generally have as a part of her solo tours?

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

...so for me twice as many Christine songs made my playlist. I found myself removing Stevie's songs, esp her early Mac and later Mac songs. However the remaining 6 songs, I'm fairly hardcore about. Where as with Christine's, I'm only hardcore about two or three of them. Does that make sense?

sure!

[MacShadowsBall]

Originally Posted by elle

one can, sure! but when i listen to FM songs i find myself skipping over most of SN or CM songs. the only studio FM album i own is Tusk. other than hits, i barely know other Mirage and TITN songs and when there was a poll comparing 2 albums i had to go on youtube to listen to songs so i can make more-less informed decision. in contrast, i own every studio and live album, DVD and blu-ray LB ever put out solo. so - make your own conclusions .

...and when I listen to Fleetwood Mac, I find myself tempted to skip over Lindsey's songs. Its like we are the complete opposite.

Originally Posted by elle

on SWS tour, LB did 6 FM songs, in the 19-song setlist all together.

he said he's trying to keep FM songs to a minimum during solo tours. btw did you hear he will tour SOLO (alone!! with just his guitar) this late spring and summer?!

ok, back to your question: he did NGBA, BL, SHN, Tusk, ISA, GYOW during SWS tour.

how many FM songs does stevie generally have as a part of her solo tours?

So about 1/3 of his tour is FM songs. Stevie does about 4 songs - Rhiannon, Landslide, Dreams, and Gold Dust Woman. She typically has a shorter setlist and does about 2-3 cover songs.

Interesting though they both ignore the Post-Mirage songs and concentrate on the white album and Rumours album songs.

A true solo-tour sounds awesome, kinda like a 1-man show.

Also I'd like to add that generally, I'm not a guitar guy. I tend to gravitate to the vocals, drums, and then the keyboards. FM tend to emphasize vocals and rhythm quite well. A lot of their songs actually are "guitar lite".

[elle]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

.Interesting though they both ignore the Post-Mirage songs and concentrate on the white album and Rumours album songs.

A true solo-tour sounds awesome, kinda like a 1-man show.

it is a 1-man show!

Big Love is from Tango, so post-mirage.

he does both Big Love and Never Going Back Again completely alone anyway - whether with mac or solo. and you can easily argue that acoustic Big Love is a completely different song that he reworked and first started doing acoustically on his 1992/93 solo tour, when he was on a 10-year hiatus from the mac.

NGBA, SHN and GYOW - from Rumours
Big Love - from Tango
Tusk - from Tusk
ISA - from FM

so he did 3 songs from Rumours, and 1 each from FM, Tusk and Tango. but he ignored Mirage and SYW, on the last tour at least.

of course, you can easily argue that most of LB's Tusk and SYW songs are solo songs anyway - since he recorded them either on his own away from the band, or as a solo album in the first place.

[David]

Originally Posted by elle

one can, sure! but when i listen to FM songs i find myself skipping over most of SN or CM songs.

Well, that's you, elle, but that's not me. The foundation of my fanaticism for this band is the orchestration of the tracks, and Lindsey happens to be the individual most responsible for those decisions (in several cases, he's also the individual most responsible for the execution of the orchestrative ideas). By orchestration, I mean the common definition: the "layout" of the sounds on a song or an album. That includes decisions about parts (the notes and chords played, which is also called arrangement), instrumentation (the combination of instruments used to generate the intended color), the vocal score, and the mix (applying dynamics and effects to what's on tape in order to create a specific atmosphere).

All this stuff is just as important to the Nicks and McVie tracks as it is to the Buckingham tracks--hence many people's interest in it. In fact, Lindsey himself has said--and I think I agree--that his best work of this sort has been on their songs, not necessarily his own.

the only studio FM albums i own are Tusk and SYW. other than hits, i barely know other Mirage and TITN songs and when there was a poll comparing 2 albums i had to go on youtube to listen to songs so i can make more-less informed decision. in contrast, i own every studio and live album, DVD and blu-ray LB ever put out solo. so - make your own conclusions

I'd conclude that you don't have much interest in Buckingham as an arranger, orchestrator, vocal harmonizer, or guitarist, because all this stuff plays such a major role in Mac albums from 1977 to now. But of course I don't know for certain what turns you on about Lindsey.

[elle]

Originally Posted by David

Well, that's you, elle, but that's not me. The foundation of my fanaticism for this band is the orchestration of the tracks, and Lindsey happens to be the individual most responsible for those decisions (in several cases, he's also the individual most responsible for the execution of the orchestrative ideas). By orchestration, I mean the common definition: the "layout" of the sounds on a song or an album. That includes decisions about parts (the notes and chords played, which is also called arrangement), instrumentation (the combination of instruments used to generate the intended color), the vocal score, and the mix (applying dynamics and effects to what's on tape in order to create a specific atmosphere).

All this stuff is just as important to the Nicks and McVie tracks as it is to the Buckingham tracks--hence many people's interest in it. In fact, Lindsey himself has said--and I think I agree--that his best work of this sort has been on their songs, not necessarily his own.

I'd conclude that you don't have much interest in Buckingham as an arranger, orchestrator, vocal harmonizer, or guitarist, because all this stuff plays such a major role in Mac albums from 1977 to now. But of course I don't know for certain what turns you on about Lindsey.

beautiful post David - well most of the stuff about orchestration, although why do feel a lot of criticism towards what i may like screaming from the part that i bolded ?! are you saying LB puts no guitar, production or arrangement effort in his solo stuff?

i of course don't have nearly the extensive musical knowledge or appreciation that you do (i more/less coasted through music school playing flute and quit when i actually had to put some work and practice into it!) but i enjoy reading your dissections. and i just listen to what i like.

when i first started listening to lindsey's stuff, i was confused how all over the spectrum his music is. my preference and what drew me in was his more rocking stuff, and of course perfect tight little pop songs like SHN. but once i heard the acoustic BL and GI that sealed it for me.

although i love his guitar parts on Mac songs from other singer/songwriters, especially melodic ones on many of stevie's songs (i listen to a drivel like that SYW song just for that simple but melodic guitar part in the middle, and also stand through stevie's nasal singing of DR for that guitar outro - but can't stand gypsy - sorry LB, i know you are proud of it). i also love his harmonies especially with christine and the ones he pulled with stevie on the recent tour versions of beautiful child and storms, but to me this is still not enough to entice me to want to listen to their songs as much as his (with the exception of a song like hold me maybe!). there are many other singer/songwriters that would be on my list in between LB and the rest of the Mac members. (just to clarify, i'm talking rumours-era mac members.)

see what you started, now i'll hear it from people how i'm being mean again!

EDIT: just want to add, i respect and can appreciate your preference for the whole mac as a sum of the parts vs the individual members, and complete rounded songs. like you said though, that's you, not me. and that's why this is so interesting, we are all drawn towards and love different things and it's nice to hear different opinions and points of view! great discussion!

[MacShadowsBall]

Originally Posted by elle

see what you started, now i'll hear it from people how i'm being mean again!

I don't think you're being mean. Actually you're being quite clear, honest, and refreshing.

Obviously Stevie is the favorite of the three. The vote for Christine and Lindsey is mostly split.

[elle]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

I don't think you're being mean. Actually you're being quite clear, honest, and refreshing. .

you are being too nice, but i'll take it!

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by elle

you are being too nice, but i'll take it!

I don't find your posts mean either. I appreciate your honesty even though I'll never understand your distaste of Sara and Gypsy. We all have different tastes and while I certainly respect you for yours I will still be waiting for you in the back of the shed with my shotgun(I don't own a gun).

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by David

I'd conclude that you don't have much interest in Buckingham as an arranger, orchestrator, vocal harmonizer, or guitarist, because all this stuff plays such a major role in Mac albums from 1977 to now.

I agree. You know, I love Jimmy Stewart, but except for Destry Rides Again (in which I think he was unusually sexy), I have not seen ANY of his westerns. I don't like westerns. I don't watch them. And I'm happy with that, but I realize that it gives me limited insight into Jimmy Stewart. And I always say with, Cary Grant, for instance, "If I didn't know how cold he was in Notorious, then I could never appreciate his wackiness as much as I do in Holiday."

Knowing the full panopoly and range gives me so much more to appreciate. Studying the differences between Cary with Dunne and Cary with Hepburn gives me such insight. The contrasts add so much depth to my understanding of his talent. And I don't have that with Jimmy Stewart. Cuz I don't like westerns.

[elle]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I agree. You know, I love Jimmy Stewart, but except for Destry Rides Again (in which I think he was unusually sexy), I have not seen ANY of his westerns. I don't like westerns. I don't watch them. And I'm happy with that, but I realize that it gives me limited insight into Jimmy Stewart. And I always say with, Cary Grant, for instance, "If I didn't know how cold he was in Notorious, then I could never appreciate his wackiness as much as I do in Holiday."

Knowing the full panopoly and range gives me so much more to appreciate. Studying the differences between Cary with Dunne and Cary with Hepburn gives me such insight. The contrasts add so much depth to my understanding of his talent. And I don't have that with Jimmy Stewart. Cuz I don't like westerns.

i agree with the rest of your post, except the bolded part. sorry, but you agree?!?!? [that i don't care about the arrangement, guitar, instrumentation, etc? read my response to David for details]

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

i agree with the rest of your post, except the bolded part. sorry, but you agree?!?!? [that i don't care about the arrangement, guitar, instrumentation, etc? read my response to David for details]

I saw your post to David.

Michele

[elle]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I saw your post to David.

that's good.

this whole conversation got me thinking - if you take out the instrumentation, the guitar, and the arrangement, what are you left with for LB's material? the melodies, hooks, lyrics, his voice, lots of raw emotion?!

so to dissect some of that - he certainly can write a great hook, put together and perform some mind-blowing guitar parts (oh but i forget, apparently i wouldn't know that if not listening to SN and CM mac songs ), some gorgeous verses, some tight arrangements.

the raw emotion he pours into his songs and performances is unbelievable and at times downright scary.

his voice is definitely not my favorite part of LB's music, although as i already said in this thread i do like it much better now than when he was young. but my preference for male voices are more "broken-sounding" voices (like RS), or large range voices (like Bono, or Freddie Mercury), or really deep voices - like Johnny Cash, Kris Kristofferson, and most of all Shane McGowan - they can read the phonebook to me whenever they want! and Shane has that deep emotion too... just born to sing.

but i have stated a lot more about what i love about LBs music elsewhere, most recently in ongoing polls dissecting his songs by a topic in LB's forum. would love to see you adding and sharing some of your opinions there David!

[David]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Knowing the full panopoly and range gives me so much more to appreciate. Studying the differences between Cary with Dunne and Cary with Hepburn gives me such insight. The contrasts add so much depth to my understanding of his talent. And I don't have that with Jimmy Stewart. Cuz I don't like westerns.

And my entire post was a response to this comment:

but when i listen to FM songs i find myself skipping over most of SN or CM songs. the only studio FM albums i own are Tusk and SYW. other than hits, i barely know other Mirage and TITN songs and when there was a poll comparing 2 albums i had to go on youtube to listen to songs so i can make more-less informed decision.

The comment didn't upset me or confuse me or elicit any particular emotional reaction. It just made me apply some inductive reasoning. Elle said to draw your own conclusions, so I concluded that she wasn't interested in LB's guitar or backup singing because all the stuff she skips is of course filled with his guitar & backup singing. Yes, she listens to his songs on the Mac albums, but by process of elimination I figured she is drawn to them because of the songwriting or the lead vocal--in other words, whatever qualities those have that are absent on the Nicks & McVie tracks (since she skips those).

My conclusion might be based on a fallacy IF it's Stevie's and Christine's lead singing and songwriting that puts off elle. This is quite common--at least in my world. If I don't want to hear a particularly stupid lyric by Stevie, I may neglect a track with a really cool bass part by John that I'd otherwise want to hear over and over again.

So cancel everything.

[elle]

Originally Posted by David

My conclusion might be based on a fallacy IF it's Stevie's and Christine's lead singing and songwriting that puts off elle. This is quite common--at least in my world. If I don't want to hear a particularly stupid lyric by Stevie, I may neglect a track with a really cool bass part by John that I'd otherwise want to hear over and over again.

So cancel everything.

oh, it's all good.

you are orders of magnitude better with words than i am (although i can always pull an excuse that english is not my first language) - parts that i bolded in your post are exactly what i was trying to state in my roundabout wordy way in responses to your post.

EDIT: to clarify - it is not Christine's singing that puts me off - i think her singing is beautiful, but her songwriting is in most cases too breezy poppy for my taste. but it definitely is some of Stevie's lyrics (yeah particularly stupid parts do come to mind lol), no real or different melodies in many of her songs, and her nasal voice - which is not always nasal, sometimes her voice does sound gorgeously interesting - "tell me lies" bit comes to mind, and i actually like broken-sounding voices as i said above, but Marianne Faithfull or Amy Winehouse type of female voice would be more my taste.