Official UTS Review Thread

[amber]

Originally Posted by CarterNix

You're right Amber. I do understand the joy of making music. I simply think that in this case, ChiliD was using it as an excuse. My post was merely a call for humility from someone who is in no place to assume that the general Fleetwood Mac fan base who use this board - (people aside from his close friends and cronies) - would have any interest whatsoever in whatever music he makes.

Further to that, it doesnt matter how long he has been a fan - he was coming across as disrespectful in a thread where people where happily comparing likes/dislikes regarding a new album that has been so long awaited.

Put simply, this is a Lindsey Buckingham messageboard - it doesn't exist for anyone else to promote their own supposed virtues.

Oh. I understand the temptation to say what you said, when someone who hasn't made a billion dollars with their music talks disparagingly about someone who has - but I don't think that will necessarily make it true. Believe me, I understand well, as I have been tempted to use the "everyone loves Stevie!" argument to justify some stuff. It's been hard to employ logic with that, sometimes. But I push through, and still try. She is not immune, no matter how much I love her.

And I can't speak for others, but I do welcome musician's views, especially such seasoned ones as ChiliD. I'm not Chili's friend or Crony, heck, I almost never even talk to him - and maybe others here wouldn't be interested in what he does musically - I don't know.

But though I may disagree with Chili, I still find his opinions interesting, and do want to hear his special musician insight. That dude has been around the scene playing music since I was born, or nearly so - I love it. Though I rarely agree with him.

And maybe he is "disrespectful", I can see your point on that - but that is really what he thinks, and just because he thinks that from his perspective doesn't necessarily make his life musical experience or talent less - it just makes him not agree with "us". And I'm sure you realize not everyone will. I just don't think it is fair to judge his own music on his opinions about Linds. Who knows, Chili may suck, and he may be making excuses ( I doubt it) but until we know for sure, that seems unfair. As of now, we can only say that we think his opinion about Linds sucks. lol.

And people promote their virtues here all the time - it may seem self centered for Mr. D to draw on his own musical choices when talking about Lindsey, but as a lifelong musician, I couldn't really expect him not to draw on that experience. What else is he supposed to draw on? And he really is a musicians, all his opinions here that I've ever seen draw on that knowledge. I mean, that is WHO HE IS.

And as you pointed out, you may think he is "full of sh*t", perhaps, or doesn't have basis for his opinions and ways of doing things because he is a musician but not a "successful" one (I would argue with that, as it seems Mr. D has made a living, or at least a suppliimental living, being a musician).

I have to submit that though he may be full of sh*t, and has drawn on his own experience as a musician to illustrate his feelings about the album - that doesn't make his music or musicianship any less, or his opinions less valid, and doesn't necessarily mean he is self promoting any more than the rest of us - when people talk in their exercise threads about stuff, I sound all superior, too, because I know a lot about exercise and food - music just happens to be ChiliD's area of expertise, he knows about music - so like anyone his opinions in his area of expertise may come off stronger and more arrogant. No big.

Which, IMO, is to be expected, and doesn't at all mean anyone has to agree with him. Or even take his opinion as a seasoned musician. Not at all. I'm not sure I've ever agreed with Chili (except for TP's kick ass rendition of Oh Well)

But nevertheless that will be his perspective, because that is who he is, and where his opinion comes from.

In short version, I think anyone can think anyone else is an a-hole, or wrong, but I never really think it is disrespectful for someone to voice their opinion. Or, maybe I do, but I try to realize that I can't call someone out for their opinion, no matter how "disrespectful" I think it is. Obviously, you can tell when people come from a place of malice, without consideration of the actual work, and I don't think that is the case here.

But also, I think you can call him out, if that is your opinion. I just don't agree with the reasons you posted for your disagreement. I don't think any artist should ever be spared someone's real opinion because you are trying to be respectful. But I do think much, much, criticism about artists is wrong, wrong. Like, the critics who skewer Stevie - I know they don't know what I know, but I can only just say they are a-holes who don't know, and chalk it up to that. Calling them "disrespectful" is like coercing someone to like you when they don't, just because you are famous, or whatever. You can be talented and famous till the world ends, it doesn't still mean everyone will like you, or see that. It's a cryin' shame, but it's true.

I would never spare anyone out of pity, or trying to be respectful, because that shortchanges the artist as well as the listener. Any artist should never be immune to discussion and "criticism." Otherwise, where is the room to grow? It's not possible for any artist, or person, to be perfect all the time, is it? You, or I, might think they are perfect, but to actually expect everyone else to think they are perfect is odd and unattainable, and to label that disrespectful is tyrannical, IMO.

And god forbid, above all, please, no - that the artist themself is ever satisfied and think their work is perfect. Because that is when art dies, and parody and nostalgia take over what used to be art. And I think we all know what I mean by that. *Shudder*

It was nice to read what you said, though, haven't seen you round here. I mean that, too. Sometimes people think I am being sarcastic when I am not, is why I'm double saying that it was a pleasure to read what you thought. It really was. lol.

*Also I may have to again agree with John Run. Twice in one day! Are you gay, John Run, or can I date you? lol*

And for the record, I bet ChiliD rocks. I know so, so, so many musician/singers who are far superior to what we hear but are not famous or recognized.
I long ago, like when I was 3, and my mom sang with her guitar, stopped judging music by its monetary or public success. I'd be a fool, and miss so many great things, If I had.

Okay but for reals in short:
To question ChiliD's opinion? - AWESOME!
To question ChiliD's musicianship having never heard him? - Lower than low, unfair, petty, etc.

S'okay, happens to the best of us. Or at least me.
gar, I should probably erase the rest of that effluvium that I just wrote.