if the tables were turned

michelle2677 · #1 07-10-2011, 03:46 PM

lindsey likes to bring up ad nauseum how stevie and lindsey were a "package deal" and FM never really wanted her. i was listening to BuckinghamNicks the other day and realized that even in the beginning, they had that fundamental problems in their relationship: competition. if the tables were turned and FM were looking for a mysterious, tambourine-shaking, velvety vocal, fairy princess lyric writing sexpot....do you think stevie would have insisted on bringing lindsey along? would she have dropped him when they were already having problems, to join a famous band and live the life she'd always wanted if it weren't an option to bring him?

i personally think she would have. i think it gave stevie great joy to see lindsey succeed, even when they hated each other. i think lindsey brought stevie along for a completely different reason-he loved her. he thought he would be the star and never really imagined she would surpass him. i also think if FM had asked for her and she had to fight to bring him, they never would have joined

thoughts?

LB Freakazoid · #2 07-10-2011, 06:26 PM

I'm not sure she would have left him behind. I mean, she often reminds us all that she waitressed, cleaned houses, whatever, so he could hone his craft - it doesn't fit... Why would she support him all that time just to leave him in the dust without anything. It seems that when they finally did move on, they were each known and wealthy. Also, at that time, LB was the one who knew how to turn her demos into the final versions.

tabruns · #3 07-10-2011, 09:04 PM

Pure speculation of course, but I am sure Nicks would have insisted on Buckingham coming along as well.

I think its the success and specifically the money that allowed both Nicks and C. McVie to walk from their relationships. The money allowed real independence.

WildHearted · #4 07-10-2011, 09:44 PM

I think Stevie would have insisted that they take Lindsey too. They may have had their complications but they were still a couple when they joined the band, and I don't necessarily think that they planned on Fleetwood Mac being a permanent thing. I think they wanted to get some popularity and get there names out there to help Buckingham Nicks, not realizing the massive success that would follow and how the band dynamic would turn out to be.

Neal · #5 07-10-2011, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelle2677

i also think if FM had asked for her and she had to fight to bring him, they never would have joined

thoughts?

This, right here.

However I'm pretty happy with the way things turned out...

SortaSavageLike · #6 07-10-2011, 09:47 PM

Turn the tables on a waitress?

Man, that's just mean.

louielouie2000 · #7 07-10-2011, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LB Freakazoid

I'm not sure she would have left him behind. I mean, she often reminds us all that she waitressed, cleaned houses, whatever, so he could hone his craft - it doesn't fit... Why would she support him all that time just to leave him in the dust without anything. It seems that when they finally did move on, they were each known and wealthy. Also, at that time, LB was the one who knew how to turn her demos into the final versions.

I think you're spot on with this assessment. I've always held steadfast to the belief that they really needed each other to break through anyway. Lindsey provided the foundation of pure talent & Stevie had the stage persona & sex appeal to push them over the edge. Early on, Stevie was too raw & untried of a talent for her to break through without Lindsey. And early on Lindsey didn't have anything that set him apart from the scads of other singer/songwriters with guitars in the 70s. Stevie and Lindsey needed each other to make it. I think they've always realized that, and felt indebted to each other because of it. Let's remember, in the early 70s Fritz was often booked because people requested "that band with the brownish blonde colored hair." So whether or not Lindsey liked it, he was always cognizant of the fact he NEEDED Stevie. And obviously Stevie needed Lindsey to transform her incredibly raw little poems into music. Stevie didn't trust anyone else to work with her music besides Lindsey until 1981, 6 years after she & Lindsey joined FM. It took her that long of being famous for her to attempt to break away & make it on solely her own merits. She wouldn't have had that confidence in 1975, and she wouldn't have trusted anyone else with her music at that point either. She was totally reliant on Lindsey.

jellyman10 · #8 07-11-2011, 02:25 AM

Personally, I think she'd have dumped him like radioactive waste.

darklinensuit · #9 07-11-2011, 03:42 AM

I think she would have joined the band without him, telling herself (and him) that it would give them money in the bank and some footing in the business. In her mind it would be a temporary thing, maybe a two-year or two-album plan, and in the meantime he could continue finding work touring with other people as he had done in the past. Once established with a larger audience & some radio play & better contacts, she could negotiate a better contract for a re-formed Buckingham Nicks - or, perhaps, she could remain in Fleetwood Mac and also reestablish Buckingham Nicks. In other words, that would be her balancing act rather than the Mac and her solo career.

Obviously we are all just guessing, so who knows, but i don't think Stevie would have just dumped Lindsey & heartlessly gone for something bigger. For one thing, they had invested a lot in each other over a long period. For another, whatever her faults, she has never struck me as one who callously steps over the people closest to her just to climb to success. At heart she is a romantic, and while she does not always put boyfriends first in her list of priorities, her choices of boyfriends (and whom she dumped at any point) do not seem to have been motivated by anything other than matters of the heart.

- Jake

Morgana · #10 07-11-2011, 05:08 AM

I think Stevie would have insisted that Lindsey and she were a package deal much the way in which Lindsey told FM they were at the time. But also there is a pattern with Stevie and the men in her life, albeit musicians or producers. She hooks up, makes a record and then seems to move on all under the guise that with the demands of her career it's impossible for her to have a relationship. Grant it, the woman has a point there! There seems to be a pattern even though she may not acknowledge it. Coincidence? Maybe, who knows? Only Stevie and her boyfriend at the time knows. I do agree that Stevie knew back then Lindsey and she needed each other and she needs him now too. But turn the table again and it seems that Lindsey has never mentioned needing Stevie since their break up, meaning he hasn't mentioned calling her for any of his songs. Or maybe he has and I missed something?

holidayroad · #11 07-11-2011, 08:29 AM

I definitely think Stevie would not have joined without Lindsey. She knew that they both had something very magical together musically.

jellyman10 · #12 07-11-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darklinensuit

Obviously we are all just guessing, so who knows, but i don't think Stevie would have just dumped Lindsey & heartlessly gone for something bigger. For one thing, they had invested a lot in each other over a long period. For another, whatever her faults, she has never struck me as one who callously steps over the people closest to her just to climb to success. At heart she is a romantic, and while she does not always put boyfriends first in her list of priorities, her choices of boyfriends (and whom she dumped at any point) do not seem to have been motivated by anything other than matters of the heart.

I totally agree that we're all speculating, of course we are. But I look at the same stuff that you do and I draw the opposite conclusion. I almost think that SN has told us the truth about her love life so many times that we've stopped hearing it! She puts her career first. She says it all the time. It's almost the only thing she's consistent about. And for that reason, I do think that she would have joined FM without him.

Furthermore, we all know the reasons that SN and LB give for their eventual split. But we also know that they were on the brink of splitting when FM happened along - so why was the relationship already on the rocks? To my reckoning, it was because Stevie was beginning to lose faith in LB's ability to get them where she wanted to go, and he knew it. In fact, LB said for the first time very recently that it was Stevie who wanted them to be a duo, and that he started writing songs because she wanted him to. Also, she's said that, in the days of Fritz, none of the guys were really interested in her because she was too ambitious.

Bottom line, for me, is that she really means it when she says that she has always been all about her career. And maybe when she says heartbreak makes for really great art, she is telling us that she is prepared to view - or even court - painful situations in a way that most of us would not?

Just some more thoughts!

Loz

GoldDustOrphan · #13 07-11-2011, 04:31 PM

Quote:

think you're spot on with this assessment. I've always held steadfast to the belief that they really needed each other to break through anyway. Lindsey provided the foundation of pure talent & Stevie had the stage persona & sex appeal to push them over the edge. Early on, Stevie was too raw & untried of a talent for her to break through without Lindsey. And early on Lindsey didn't have anything that set him apart from the scads of other singer/songwriters with guitars in the 70s. Stevie and Lindsey needed each other to make it. I think they've always realized that, and felt indebted to each other because of it. Let's remember, in the early 70s Fritz was often booked because people requested "that band with the brownish blonde colored hair." So whether or not Lindsey liked it, he was always cognizant of the fact he NEEDED Stevie. And obviously Stevie needed Lindsey to transform her incredibly raw little poems into music. Stevie didn't trust anyone else to work with her music besides Lindsey until 1981, 6 years after she & Lindsey joined FM. It took her that long of being famous for her to attempt to break away & make it on solely her own merits. She wouldn't have had that confidence in 1975, and she wouldn't have trusted anyone else with her music at that point either. She was totally reliant on Lindsey.

I like the essence of this, but offer one correction. Stevie was recording very polished demos (Sara, Gypsy, etc.) with guys like Tom Moncreiff even before Tusk was recorded.

darklinensuit · #14 07-12-2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jellyman10

I totally agree that we're all speculating, of course we are. But I look at the same stuff that you do and I draw the opposite conclusion. I almost think that SN has told us the truth about her love life so many times that we've stopped hearing it! She puts her career first. She says it all the time. It's almost the only thing she's consistent about. And for that reason, I do think that she would have joined FM without him.

How is this the opposite conclusion when I said she would have joined FM?

- Jake

GarboSpeaks! · #15 07-12-2011, 08:34 PM

I think Stevie would have fought to have him along as well, but I think she would NEVER EVER let him forget that. I also think that's why I adore LB so much, he's humble about fact. Doesn't go on and on about how HE fought for them to be taken together, and doesn't speak out so much about her solo success. Does he internally resent it, I definately think so, but he's super cool about not being a jerk about the fact.
I also wonder how that might have been for LB right on the spot. "We want you to join Lindsey" and Lindsey internally thinking to self "#$%^ this is gonna go over like a Payday in the swimming pool" with Stevie. How on earth can I convince her yes I want her to join w/ me & FM, and then conveying that to Mick and the gang. Both the best day of his life and most difficult I betcha.