FWIW question...

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Well, what Stevie says the song is about doesn't matter that much to me, since she's also said that Blue Denim was not about him and then said it was. Both statements were probably equally correct.

But to me, the lyrics in FWIW don't sound anything like a description of what she had with Lindsey. Sounds like Tom Petty to me. Either Petty or someone we don't know about at all, since their relationship was a secret, forbidden.

Michele

Though Stevie has long history and strong bond to Lindsey, it seems many people, in their attempts to disect the meanings of her songs, defaults to Lindsey. No doubt that many of her songs have some connection to him, but this woman has lived a very long, rich and colorful private life outside the realms of Lindsey. I would tend to think that some of her lyrics are inspired by other people and experiences besides Lindsey. It would be very pathetic to think that wasn't the case.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

I'm guessing they were... references to a 'great romance, still forbidden'. Romantic involvement between anyone who works with addicts and the addict is indeed not professionally allowed. Stevie is a free spirit from the 60s and as she recently said in her diplomatic way, "I"ve had a LOT of 'romance' in my life..."

If the "great romance" is "Still forbidden, Still outrageous", then that indicates the relationship is ongoing. I don't believe she had an affair with her counselor and I don't believe he would have jeopardized her sobriety and his professional integrity by allowing something like that to happen. I think she's talking to two different people - her love interest and the drug interventionist.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

If the "great romance" is "Still forbidden, Still outrageous", then that indicates the relationship is ongoing.

Ha. Maybe it's just still taboo, because you still aren't supposed to be sleeping with your therapist, or your priest, or your teacher, or your lawyer -- or your father.

Even if it happened more than 15 years ago, people would still be shocked by the revelation, as Mackenzie Phillips' book disclosures established.


Michele

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

I think a line in Julia is mis-heard/mistaken. It reads "I would cry to be moved." That's a very odd interpretation, and would be a very odd line.

I always heard it as "I would cry to the moon." She pronounces "the" as "thee."

Interesting. You could be right. It wouldn't be the first time I've misheard a demo lyric. Heck, I just found out that "Secret Love" is "Must secret loves secretly die" when she put out the lyrics booklet to In Your Dreams.

Re: the love song aspect of "For What It's Worth," I see no reason to believe she's talking about two different people in the song; she gives no indication lyrically that the "you" she's addressing isn't one person throughout. As I've said before, though, it could just be emotional intimacy.... or that his help enabled her to continue to live that kind of life where she got to sing, dance, and be a part of a great romance.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Ha. Maybe it's just still taboo, because you still aren't supposed to be sleeping with your therapist, or your priest, or your teacher, or your lawyer -- or your father.

Even if it happened more than 15 years ago, people would still be shocked by the revelation, as Mackenzie Phillips' book disclosures established.


Michele

That's funny.... and gross.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

That's funny.... and gross.

Kidding aside, the unauthorized aspect could cover the outrageous and forbidden lines, but Nancy just made me think of the "great romance" part of it again and that doesn't sound like the drummer. Great romance sounds more like a rather epic Scarlett/Rhett type relationship.

Michele

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Kidding aside, the unauthorized aspect could cover the outrageous and forbidden lines, but Nancy just made me think of the "great romance" part of it again and that doesn't sound like the drummer. Great romance sounds more like a rather epic Scarlett/Rhett type relationship.

Michele

Well, besides the point that I don't think Dallas Taylor would jeopardize his job, professional integrity and her sobriety, yes I that's what I meant - she's not saying her drug counselor was the great romance she was/is a part of and therefore whoever she is referring to as the other part of the great romance is the person who said, "even if I left my girlfriend"... just my take on it...

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Well, besides the point that I don't think Dallas Taylor would jeopardize his job, professional integrity and her sobriety, yes I that's what I meant - she's not saying her drug counselor was the great romance she was/is a part of and therefore whoever she is referring to as the other part of the great romance is the person who said, "even if I left my girlfriend"... just my take on it...

I don't have an opinion on what the drummer she was talking about would have done, what lines he would have crossed, etc., but I do see the mismatch you've pinpointed, in that not all of the lyrics seem to apply to the person she described in that clip. "Great romance" seems to have a more monumental implication. I hear it as saying more than, "you helped me through a bad time," but instead expressing something about the power and thrill of the romance itself (not just the relationship).

On the other hand, I could be reading too much into it and interpreting "great" more literally than it was intended. She could mean great romance as in "great popsicle, very cold and fudgy." Whereas, I am hearing the word as defining a liaison that was large, encompassing, almost historic.

Michele

[SapphireSister]

OMG I just realized it sounds like Rose Garden. Noooooooooooooooooooo!!!

[michelle2677]

Originally Posted by Sugar

Must say the first person I thought of when I heard this song was Mick.

me too, but i've always been a mick/stevie closet shipper. i think even though lindsey was always the strong pillar in her life, mick was more comforting and tender. of course now after reading through this ENTIRE thread idk.

Originally Posted by David

I agree. The "great romance" is the life she's had at the top of the rock & roll world. That would include relationships, but it means so much more.

This was a song that, when I first heard it, I enjoyed the casualness of it. It seemed genuine, too. But it never made me think of Lindsey--it made me think of the recent life of a close friend of mine, so I sent the song to her because I knew she'd know exactly what I was thinking.

To me, it gets really boring & constraining to think of everything Stevie writes in terms of Lindsey's effect on her. If that were all true, that would be a really boring--and yet still psychotically obsessed--life. I think Stevie's life--even the parts she remembers--was a lot more exciting than that.

Look at Stevie in my sig. It's September 24, 1983, at Irvine Meadows Amphitheatre. See the smile on her face? That's her great romance. It's Joe & Mick & Don & Lindsey & Sharon & the Wild Heart tour & Europe & Australia & concerts & audiences & fans & songs on the radio & People magazine covers & rock bands & all of life wrapped up in a moment of adrenaline.

i don't know if you were full of sh*t when you wrote this but i agree with every word.

Originally Posted by SapphireSister

Awww Nancy I have always loved your site and will be very sad it see it go if that's the case. You have done a wonderful job of keeping it up and running for a long time and on behalf of all the people who have visited over the years we thank you! I love your streaming demos and your site will always be a part of my Stevie Nicks history.

ME TOO!!! i first got into fm in 2000, but a few years later i was in college and i remember going to the computer lab and looking up lyrics. i stumbled upon her speculation section and i was hooked. i would stay there all evening just reading every word people had written. that's where i heard frozen love for the first time as well. hell, i still go there when i need to double-check lyrics or track listings on albums

Originally Posted by crylove77

First off, Stevie was not just on Klonopin, she was taking a a lot of other pills, drinking heavily, smoking a lot of weed, etc. Basically just self medicating all the time. This was also around the time Stevie was carrying around those realistic looking baby dolls acting like they were real. There's pics of her in airports walking with those "babies". Anyway, she was just in a really bad place mentally, as she has said. Glen said once she locked herself in her room for 3 days and he literally had to knock down the door to get in and she hadn't showered or eaten in days, just a mess. Lori and Jess were a wreck during this time, they just didn't know how to help her and she wouldn't listen to anyone. Apparently, Lori called LB first and asked him to come try to talk to her, that they just didn't know what to do anymore. At first LB said no, that he just couldn't go down that road with her again, it was too much. He had "caught her when she was falling" so many times at that point, and he just couldn't understand what was happening to her. So he said no to Lori. Then Jess called and just broke down on the phone begging for his help. So LB flew to Phoenix and Glen picked him up at the airport. They went back to the house and when he saw Stevie she was holding/rocking that doll, had not been taking care of herself, etc., and LB broke down. Stevie got angry when she saw him and basically started blaming him for everything. Glen said LB begged her to come with him to get help and she refused. She was screaming at him, hitting him, blaming him for everything and Glen said LB just stood there and took it (as he usually does when it comes to Stevie, according to Chris). Chris and Glen have both said that LB is a "saint" at times with her. So the whole thing went on for 2 days, LB begging her to get help, she refusing. Finally, she said she would go if LB would stay with her through the initial detox. At first LB said no, he couldn't watch her go through that, but finally said he would stay with her when he realized she would go no other way. So LB arranged and paid for a private plane with a doctor, nurse and his own shrink to fly down to Phoenix and fly back with them to CA to some extremely exclusive rehab. Apparently, LB paid an exorbitant amount of money for the privilege of staying with her, basically a bribe. Jess was so torn up he didn't visit at all, couldn't bear to see her that way. Chris said they all thought she was going to die. This is when her hair turned grey and she had terrible leg and stomach cramps and couldn't sleep. Lindsey did things for her that she would not allow the nurses to do, help her bathe, use the bathroom, things like that. She wanted and tried to leave the detox multiple times, but LB literally held her down to stop her from leaving. She also had severe shakes, almost like seizures, and he held her during those too. After the bad detox was over and the rehab started, he was involved with everything and came to multiple therapy sessions with her. Chris and Glen have both said that LB was the sole reason she got better, that his love and support made her able to cope with it all. And she came to depend on him a great deal after that. (What you did was, You saved my life, I won't forget it)

Love Is is tied into all this as well. At the end of the rehab, Stevie wanted to start fresh with him in a romantic relationship but LB was hesitant. Not only had they been down that road numerous times and it had never worked long term, but he had serious problems of his own at that time. He was seeing a shrink himself and had developed a serious alcohol dependency. This was around the time he got that DUI. He was also still on again/off again with Cheri (You said, even if I left my girlfriend, picked up my stuff, loaded up my car, came down to your house, with good intentions). But during Stevie's detox and rehab, he put his own problems on hold to take care of her. So she wanted him, he said no. Not never, just not "now". He wanted to get his own head on straight before they went down that road again. She was devastated, but understood. And as is popular opinion, the relationship did resume just prior to The Dance.

Making "Twisted" was kind of a test to see if she still had it and that whole story about how The Dance came to be, LB asking Mick to play drums and it morphed, etc.? That's partly true, but the whole Dance thing was LB's brainchild for Stevie, he didn't want to see her go out that way, with everyone remembering how she was in the early 90's. Of course, it helped his career too, but the whole idea was for Stevie.

i know there is probably a very good reason why you deleted all of your posts in this thread and i can remove this if needed but i figured someone else had quoted you so no harm.

it's 10:30 am now but when i read this it was about 45 minutes ago. i have to say i literally cried when i read this. i knew stevie was bad but i had no idea it was like this. i've always been a s/l shipper too, but more in an unhealthy way. meaning i think lindsey and stevie were very toxic to each other (that love/hate thing) and even though i love them together in a hypothetical sense, realistically i think it's a bad idea. so after reading this (it doesn't change how i feel about them not needing to be together) i have a little more compassion for their relationship and there were moments where they really good for each other. the problem is, they just couldn't stay that way for long.

To me "the Great Romance" means Rock & Roll, like living the dream.

[BrownEyedGirl26]

Originally Posted by Newzchspy

Wasn't this her friend Glenn??

It could, very well, be Glen Parrish! He is an Australian, and has been a friend to her for a very long time. I think he was her manager at one time or another but I could be mistaken about that! I thought I remembered reading about it a long time ago!

[sodascouts]

Thanks for the kind words, michelle!

As for the incident described by crylove77, I think it might be a bit exaggerated. Of course I have no personal knowledge here, but just using common sense, that scenario seems pretty far-fetched. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if Lindsey was involved in an intervention (although there's no proof of even that), because he obviously cares deeply for her. However, this whole Saint Lindsey being the only one who could help her, having to stay with her every minute, shooing away nurses and tending personally to her most intimate needs at her insistence, even holding her down bodily (gotta have at least one scene where Stevie is writhing under Lindsey)... all of that is straight up fanfic's melodramatic alley.

I'm not calling anyone a liar; these kind of fifth-hand stories often get distorted. You gotta take what you read on the internets with a grain of salt!

Just my admittedly uninformed opinion.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Thanks for the kind words, michele!

As for the incident described by crylove77, I think it might be a bit exaggerated. Of course I have no personal knowledge here, but just using common sense, that scenario seems pretty far-fetched. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if Lindsey was involved in an intervention (although there's no proof of even that), because he obviously cares deeply for her. However, this whole Saint Lindsey being the only one who could help her, having to stay with her every minute, shooing away nurses and tending personally to her most intimate needs at her insistence, even holding her down bodily (gotta have at least one scene where Stevie is writhing under Lindsey)... all of that is straight up fanfic's melodramatic alley.

I'm not calling anyone a liar; these kind of fifth-hand stories often get distorted. You gotta take what you read on the internets with a grain of salt!

Just my admittedly uninformed opinion.

If it was true though, it sure would make their ongoing connection make a lot more sense wouldn't it? I mean, other than the mutual money grabbing scheme they're partners in...

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

even holding her down bodily (gotta have at least one scene where Stevie is writhing under Lindsey)...

Thrown down.

I agree it's fantasy. Michele