Jonathan Todds Email No One Was Supposed To See: READ

[Vianna]

Do we know for a fact that Mick Fleetwood hired this Jonathan Todd guy?

or did his management? or maybe even Warners?

How much contact do band members have with their managements?

What I am trying hard to figure out here is how much Mick, John, Lindsey and Stevie know about all this.

I don't know about the rest of you but I work in a place where it is entirely possible that our head of school does not know everything her subordinates do. She relies on them to do their jobs correctly. I wouldn't if I were she but that's the way she does things. Maybe Lindsey Mick et al expect the same.

If so in this case they are deluded, obviously.

Being as I did not join the fan club and nothing has been done to me personally I have no case against Mr. Todd except I don't like his attitude toward the fans. Those of you who did join the fan club I would suggest writing the Better Business Bureau. They may or may not be able to do anything for you specifically but if enough complaints come in, at least there will be an official type place that knows how this man treats customers. It will hurt him in the long run if not right now.

I posted on that site over there maybe twice. I found it unfriendly and just never went back.

If there is anybody out there that reads these boards and has any access to band members personally (not through their managements) that would be the best way to complain of course.

This is just such a sad thing. Like David, having been a fan for many years, I can vouch for the band's general non-communicativeness with fans and I had hoped this was the beginning of a new era. Guess not=:-(

[SaraRhiannon]

Originally posted by Cour
The facts are all out now and they can't say they didn't know. If they want to do the right thing they can do it now. If they don't, I don't want any part of them later on. Sorry, but that's the way I feel.

I feel exactly the same way, Cour. Half of the people over there are CHOOSING to remain ignorant about everything, and the other half just don't care. The other night I posted about 15 different messages there with links to this thread. The PMs and responses I got were to the effect of "go back to the Ledge, we don't care about what you have to say, this is OUR board, etc. etc." THEY are the ones making this an "us vs. them" situation when it need not be. The fan club/Todd problems have been ongoing for months now. The facts are out there. They've had every chance to educate themselves, and are choosing to remain ignorant (hoping that they'll also be deemed "safe" and then receive perks like the two sellouts Jackie and Trinity did? Perhaps.) Whatever the reason, it doesn't really matter to me. I don't want any part of them when the **** hits the fan, the Mick board and fanclub are no longer here, and they're forced to come to the Ledge and to the other boards. I won't welcome them.

[GypsyAngel]

What about e-mailing John Kinney @ NicksFix? Could he help?

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by GypsyAngel
What about e-mailing John Kinney @ NicksFix? Could he help?

I'd like to think it would but if he had his hands tied over the "are you happy with the fan club" poll (that was at the NF and then it "disappeared") then I'd imagine this would fall under the same "gag order" area. JMHO though.

John

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by Vianna
Do we know for a fact that Mick Fleetwood hired this Jonathan Todd guy?

or did his management? or maybe even Warners?

How much contact do band members have with their managements?

What I am trying hard to figure out here is how much Mick, John, Lindsey and Stevie know about all this.

I don't know about the rest of you but I work in a place where it is entirely possible that our head of school does not know everything her subordinates do. She relies on them to do their jobs correctly. I wouldn't if I were she but that's the way she does things. Maybe Lindsey Mick et al expect the same.

If so in this case they are deluded, obviously.

Being as I did not join the fan club and nothing has been done to me personally I have no case against Mr. Todd except I don't like his attitude toward the fans. Those of you who did join the fan club I would suggest writing the Better Business Bureau. They may or may not be able to do anything for you specifically but if enough complaints come in, at least there will be an official type place that knows how this man treats customers. It will hurt him in the long run if not right now.

I posted on that site over there maybe twice. I found it unfriendly and just never went back.

If there is anybody out there that reads these boards and has any access to band members personally (not through their managements) that would be the best way to complain of course.

This is just such a sad thing. Like David, having been a fan for many years, I can vouch for the band's general non-communicativeness with fans and I had hoped this was the beginning of a new era. Guess not=:-(

Same here, it seems as though you've answered your own questions with your last paragraph though.

Like the situation where you were saying you work, you wouldn't like to NOT know what was going on with people that work for you so shouldn't the same logic apply to this stuff with the members of FM?

If they don't know what's going on in their name then they SHOULD know but they really have no real reason/excuse as to not knowing. As I said in my last rant, them being "too busy" just doesn't add up to me but whatever, I'd be interested to see how many here think the band members know (even if they won't admit it), time for a poll.

John

[The Catdancer]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
Same here, it seems as though you've answered your own questions with your last paragraph though.

Like the situation where you were saying you work, you wouldn't like to NOT know what was going on with people that work for you so shouldn't the same logic apply to this stuff with the members of FM?

If they don't know what's going on in their name then they SHOULD know but they really have no real reason/excuse as to not knowing. As I said in my last rant, them being "too busy" just doesn't add up to me but whatever, I'd be interested to see how many here think the band members know (even if they won't admit it), time for a poll.

John

I don't think the band knows what's going on, maybe Mick does because he set the whole thing up. But even than, he might NOT know becaus he's on the road. If he does know about all of this, on the road or not, he should do something about it.

Btw, hi everyone!!!! I'm new here.
Thanks for having me
Debbie

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by highpriestess53
Once we set this precedence we’ll have to offer equal “air time” to every requesting party.

BTW, JT, you set a PRECEDENT. You take precedence. Looks like someone makes mistakes in his e-mails!

[Tango]

Originally posted by Vianna
Do we know for a fact that Mick Fleetwood hired this Jonathan Todd guy?

or did his management? or maybe even Warners?

How much contact do band members have with their managements?

What I am trying hard to figure out here is how much Mick, John, Lindsey and Stevie know about all this.

I don't know about the rest of you but I work in a place where it is entirely possible that our head of school does not know everything her subordinates do. She relies on them to do their jobs correctly. I wouldn't if I were she but that's the way she does things. Maybe Lindsey Mick et al expect the same.

If so in this case they are deluded, obviously.

Being as I did not join the fan club and nothing has been done to me personally I have no case against Mr. Todd except I don't like his attitude toward the fans. Those of you who did join the fan club I would suggest writing the Better Business Bureau. They may or may not be able to do anything for you specifically but if enough complaints come in, at least there will be an official type place that knows how this man treats customers. It will hurt him in the long run if not right now.

I posted on that site over there maybe twice. I found it unfriendly and just never went back.

If there is anybody out there that reads these boards and has any access to band members personally (not through their managements) that would be the best way to complain of course.

This is just such a sad thing. Like David, having been a fan for many years, I can vouch for the band's general non-communicativeness with fans and I had hoped this was the beginning of a new era. Guess not=:-(

Vianna, you bring up several important questions. It sort of reminds me of the 1970's . . . "What did the President know, and when did he know it." I hope we won't be forced to go looking for a deep throat and smoking gun this time around.

I only have to look at Les's post in the articles/lyrics interpretation section of The Penguin to get a possible answer to your question about "how much contact do bands have with their management." Les put up a CURRENT article, I believe entitled Interview Magazine (June 2003) which said, ""I will spend hours on the phone with my manager, talking about how to do things. Where Lindsey is constantly working on music, I went off and entrepreneured by way through Europe for two-and-a-half years doing dot-com companies. I didn’t sit at home. I wish I had."

Management must be in deep communication with the band right now, as they help to set up the tour, iron out problems, deep with budget/pocket change issues. I don't know how much the management is communicating to the band about the "fan club debacle." My guess is the band doesn't know, outside of Mick Fleetwood, as his management set it up. They know about "the CART", etc. I also know each band member's management has been contacted. I don't expect them to interrupt the band as they are on tour to say, "Guess what Mick's pulled this time. They survived him putting out a book that savaged Lindsey, and really made the rest of the band look like trash. He did it for the money. He didn't care about content. I think we can see the same thing happening now. Mick has spoken on videos, so there is no doubt he is aware of the fan club and as Jackie posted (for Mr. Todd), he receives print outs from the message board.

I don't think anyone wants to spoil the tour for "the band." I just wish the management didn't want to spoil the tour for "the fans." I think their attitude is, "Hey, there can't be any more than maybe 2000 people in the fan club. Give them a few pictures and clips, and we'll still offer them the 'fan club tickets' on the second leg. These people have nothing but faith."

David, I would love to hear more about the other fan clubs. On the other hand, I don't think the argument about Ginny the fan mail lady pertains here. She wasn't paid $60-80.00 by each person to answer their letters, and no promises were made. In the case of the FM Fan Club, promises were made, money was exchanged, and there has been virtually nothing to show for that payment. Mr. Todd is now giving things away to merely get people to post on Mick's board, to people that aren't even paid members of the fan club. More salt in the wound. I think the rub with the fan mail lady comes from the fact that the internet changed her contact with fans. She formerly got hand written/typed letters via US mail. "We love you Stevie, and your songs meant so much to me." I suspect the internet "instant access" changed the sort of communications given to her. Fans wanted information, rather than just sending in "fan mail." She clearly refused to be the info babe. In retrospect, in my opinion, perhaps the whole internet "thing" by her was a mistake. Maybe Stevie's people thought it was going to save them postage and ink.

I am interested in hearing the other moderators take on the fan club, if you wish to share that info. And if you didn't join, maybe say why you didn't. Thank you for any opinions.

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by The Catdancer
I don't think the band knows what's going on, maybe Mick does because he set the whole thing up. But even than, he might NOT know becaus he's on the road. If he does know about all of this, on the road or not, he should do something about it.

Btw, hi everyone!!!! I'm new here.
Thanks for having me
Debbie

Hi Debbie, I respect your opnion and welcome to the ledge.

Vianna - I didn't mean for my last post here to sound bitchy against you or anything, just bringing up some points is all.

John

[Tango]

I want to believe the whole band doesn't know about this, but I do believe Mick does. I know their management does, as we have sent letters to them. We have confirmation that they have been received. If you want to personally make sure they know, by all means write to them.

The band plays on, no matter what. It's a major piece of money. Lindsey LEFT the band, and the band played on. Just before a tour. Mick's book came out, scathing several members of the band, particularly Lindsey, and the band played on. Members claimed they didn't read the book, and the band played on.

Is it possible the rest of the band has been isolated from Mick's latest venture by their managers? Well, you can take John's (wetcamelfood's) poll and weigh in on that part.

The managers know.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by sodascouts
BTW, JT, you set a PRECEDENT. You take precedence. Looks like someone makes mistakes in his e-mails!

And he had the nerve to suggest not giving us consideration due to a spelling mistake! Pah!

Pip

[glitter_fades]

David says a lot of things older fans probably know but don't want to say on these boards. I agree with his take on things. I always feel like the lone wolf when trying to explain to new fans (who've come on board since the Dance) that FM and Mick Fleetwood have done this kind of thing to fans for 5 decades.

This band always surrounds themselves with people of questionable character & intellegence. You'd think they'd have learned something by now, right? Well, they have. They've learned that there's money in letting creeps like this do the dirty work. If there's a backlash among fans or in the media, the band hides behind the notion they were out of the loop, out to lunch, on a drug binge, on tour, or whatever. I agree with John. If they don't know the depth of the situation, they should. These people are not stupid. They're not children. They're not supposed to be on drugs anymore. They have no excuses...unless it's a calculated business decision NOT to know.

Again, the managers have all been given documentation about the situation. MSNBC.com did a story about the fan club, for Pete's sake! Stevie's people are fully aware of what's going on. If they don't tell her, or she doesn't want to take it seriously, then THAT'S ON HER. I think she does care about fans, in a general sense. She runs hot and cold in this area, probably because she has some specific fans that deserve to be avoided. That doesn't excuse her ignoring the run of the mill fan. If her managment is contacted about something that could harm her public image, and they don't clue her in, they deserve to be fired, more so than the people she fired for forcing her into drug rehab. Where are the priorities?

Please don't think I'm a Stevie basher. I love Stevie. She lives in my community. She's done a lot of giving back here. She's loved by a lot of people for that reason. I just wish she'd wake up and realize she needs to go on with her life after her career is over. By ignoring ordinary fans like me, who've been trampled by mickfleetwood.com & fleetwoodmac.com, she's setting herself up for leaving people with a negative image. What a shame. All because of her loyalty to Mick and his money grubbing schemes. Sure she owes loyalty to Mick for a lot of reasons. I believe she owes some loyalty to fans who've kept her afloat all these years, with and without Mr. Fleetwood & the band.

[seeknpeace]

If they stay there and post there and continue to align themselves and kiss up to Jonathan Todd, Trinity and Jackie, you have no friends here.

Amen and I agree 100% Cour. I have had the displeasure to "meet" some few fans in the past who sit on fences and play both sides to get things and to try to not miss a morsel of info or free goods, but, the time has come. You need to take a stand.

[gypsygem81]

I say that someone who has decent seats for one of the gigs should hold up a big banner saying SACK THE TOAD!!

Love Gem

[Vianna]

If Mick hired JT then Mick is responsible, and it is to him that complaints should go.

As we older fans know, Mick sometimes has problems finding people of good character to work with-whoever for example helped him with that book would be a good example. Even if what he says went on did go on, the band's laundry shouldn't have been washed in public=:-)I am sure it sold books, though.

Mick also shows signs of having a spending money problem=:-)He always seems to need more $$$$ and is looking for ways to make it.

Also some of you know about how he mismanaged things when he was manager of the band-"Mick's missing millions"=:-)This fiasco is why the band members all have their own managers now. They decided not to let Mick be manager anymore.

Then there was the Fleetwood restaurant chain he was going to make millions off of...

The internet has made it so that it's easier for someone like this JT person to fleece people that's all.

I don't mean to bash Mick. None of us is perfect. He has held that band together through thick and thin, somehow or other. It's just that anything involving money he seems not to have a lot of judgment.

As to why I didn't join-maybe I would have if the tickets hadn't been so expensive to begin with. However I didn't see adding $60 to the price of the ticket just to get one.