The Chain boxset: Alternate mixes?

seekerj · #1 02-09-2010, 05:15 PM

The Chain boxset contains alternate mixes. We all know that the liner notes are incorrect and incomplete. Some tracks are indicated as "alternate", but truly are not. Many tracks are in fact "alternate", but not indicated as such in the liner notes.

Does a "true" complete list of what tracks are alternate mixes exist?

I did a search, but didn't come up with anything.

Thanks!

jaycee · #2 02-10-2010, 12:29 AM

I think the discography section of this website has corrections, but I can't be sure if it's complete...

seekerj · #3 02-12-2010, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaycee

I think the discography section of this website has corrections, but I can't be sure if it's complete...

Thank you!

wetcamelfood · #4 02-12-2010, 11:08 AM

This was a tough one to work on, just to get it in so we could move on we just used our judgement at the time though it's admittedly not perfect. Example: Brown Eyes - you can hear on the box version they faded it in at the beginning a few seconds earlier than they did on Tusk and they faded it out a few seconds earlier on the box than they did on Tusk but for all intents and purposes we just hitched it up with the Tusk version at the time as we really didn't feel it merited being classed as it's own version so to speak but by all means go through the listings and see what you think and we can discuss it here if all feel some should be counted as separate versions as to what is listed there now. I must confess, when it comes to different "versions", that's one thing but when it comes to different "mixes" I'm lost, so any advice on that would be great.

John

SteveMacD · #5 02-13-2010, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetcamelfood

This was a tough one to work on, just to get it in so we could move on we just used our judgement at the time though it's admittedly not perfect. Example: Brown Eyes - you can hear on the box version they faded it in at the beginning a few seconds earlier than they did on Tusk and they faded it out a few seconds earlier on the box than they did on Tusk but for all intents and purposes we just hitched it up with the Tusk version at the time as we really didn't feel it merited being classed as it's own version so to speak but by all means go through the listings and see what you think and we can discuss it here if all feel some should be counted as separate versions as to what is listed there now. I must confess, when it comes to different "versions", that's one thing but when it comes to different "mixes" I'm lost, so any advice on that would be great.

I thought Brown Eyes had the extended guitar solo.

wetcamelfood · #6 02-13-2010, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I thought Brown Eyes had the extended guitar solo.

Hmm, could be, can you point out the counter times of the part that is only in the Chain box version?

I'd like some feedback in general from people here as to how many extra seconds a track has to be before we deem it to be worthy of calling it "it's own version" too.

John

WarmSir3 · #7 02-13-2010, 11:03 AM

The boxset version of Brown Eyes sounds completely different to me, the guitars are more prominent and the vocals are a lot softer..

wetcamelfood · #8 02-13-2010, 01:26 PM

OK I'll set up a poll and whichever wins is the way we'll go.

Say in this thread however if you think any of the other tracks on the box deserve discussion as to whether they should be set up different regarding how they are linked now on the discography page for the box.

John

KenB · #9 02-17-2010, 08:28 PM

The discography lists the following tracks on "The Chain" box set as either different edits or alternate mixes. For the life of me, I have trouble hearing the differences in some of the alternate mixes, like Second Hand News and especially Love In Store. Has anyone compiled a definitive list of what's different about each of these tracks? (For example: I think the acoustic guitar is mixed higher on Second Hand News, but I'm not sure.) I think a document of this sort would be very useful. Anyway, here's the list:

Isn't It Midnight
Gypsy
Second Hand News
Love In Store
The Chain
Dreams
Gold Dust Woman
Say You Love Me
Lay It All Down
Angel
Beautiful Child
Tusk
Need Your Love So Bad

The other thing I'd love to know is who sequenced these four discs, and why they did so in such a seemingly random way. Why is Lay It All Down on disc 3, when all the other non-LB&SN tracks are on disc 4? And why are the newly recorded tracks scattered around instead of all together? Does anyone have any info?

PenguinHead · #10 02-17-2010, 11:18 PM

[QUOTE=KenB;872244]The discography lists the following tracks on "The Chain" box set as either different edits or alternate mixes. For the life of me, I have trouble hearing the differences in some of the alternate mixes, like Second Hand News and especially Love In Store. Has anyone compiled a definitive list of what's different about each of these tracks? (For example: I think the acoustic guitar is mixed higher on Second Hand News, but I'm not sure.) I think a document of this sort would be very useful. Anyway, here's the list:

Isn't It Midnight
Gypsy
Second Hand News
Love In Store
The Chain
Dreams
Gold Dust Woman
Say You Love Me
Lay It All Down
Angel
Beautiful Child
Tusk
Need Your Love So Bad

QUOTE]

For sure include Brown Eyes in this list. Also note that, although the live Not That Funny makes it's first appearance here, the instrumental break is edited from the original performance as it appears on the Mirage concert video. If I recall correctly, I think the live "I'm So Afraid" also has an edit.

wetcamelfood · #11 02-18-2010, 10:43 AM

The poll is still open on Brown Eyes.

We have Not That Funny & I'm So Afraid listed on the page as being edited versions of thier respective longer versions.

As for the rest, we used judgement at the time just to get them in:

Isn't It Midnight - We listed separate since the prominent electric rhythm guitar (on the TITN mix) was mixed down/out. If you'd like a poll, I'll start one.

Gypsy - We listed separate since it's almost a full minute longer, but again as said before we'd like feeback regarding how much longer/shorter a track should be before listing it as a separate version. If you'd like a poll, I'll start one.

Second Hand News - This does appear to me to be the same version that appears on the all US CD reissues of Rumours except the original WB pressing & non US pressings (which has the original vinyl cut) but just to get it in we listed it as a diff mix like the notes say. If you'd like a poll, I'll start one.

Love In Store - We listed separate since it's almost ten seconds longer, but again as said before we'd like feeback regarding how much longer/shorter a track should be before listing it as a separate version. If you'd like a poll, I'll start one.

The Chain - This does appear to me (though audiophiles can probably point out the difference to us) to be the same version that appears on Rumours (though probably remastered) but just to get it in we listed it as a diff mix like the notes say. If you'd like a poll, I'll start one.

Dreams - This does appear to me (though audiophiles can probably point out the difference to us) to be the same version that appears on Rumours (though probably remastered) but just to get it in we listed it as a diff mix like the notes say. If you'd like a poll, I'll start one.

Gold Dust Woman - Though some Rumours CD pressings have longer/shorter fade ins/outs than others (and again we can talk about "how long a version has to me before we count it as a diff version") this does appear to me (though audiophiles can probably point out the difference to us) to be the same version that appears on Rumours (though probably remastered) but just to get it in we listed it as a diff mix like the notes say. If you'd like a poll, I'll start one.

Say You Love Me - This does appear to me (though audiophiles can probably point out the difference to us) to be what has been billed as the "single mix", the same version that appears on the Rhino CD remaster of the 1975 FM album as a bonus track so we linked it to that & the single itself. If you'd like a poll, I'll start one.

Lay It All Down - Though it ends up being only 4 seconds longer compared to the Future games version, this mix/version has been changed a little with a verse added in & other parts removed, not to mention remixed (and probably remastered) so we listed it separately just to get it in as a diff mix like the notes say. If you'd like a poll, I'll start one.

Angel - This does appear to me (though audiophiles can probably point out the difference to us) to be the same version that appears on Tusk (though probably remastered) but just to get it in we listed it as a diff mix like the notes say. If you'd like a poll, I'll start one.

Beautiful Child - This does appear to me (though audiophiles can probably point out the difference to us) to be the same version that appears on Tusk (though probably remastered) but just to get it in we listed it as a diff mix like the notes say. If you'd like a poll, I'll start one.

Tusk- Though this does appear to me to be the same version that appears on Tusk (though probably remastered) it does replace the 1st verse with some featured horns & it's slightly shorter (by about 10 seconds or so) so just to get it in we listed it as a diff mix like the notes say. If you'd like a poll, I'll start one.

Need Your Love So Bad - This does appear to me (though audiophiles can probably point out the difference to us) to be the same version that appears on the single (though probably remastered) so we linked it as such. If you'd like a poll, I'll start one.

John

Dodfather · #12 02-18-2010, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenB

The other thing I'd love to know is who sequenced these four discs, and why they did so in such a seemingly random way. Why is Lay It All Down on disc 3, when all the other non-LB&SN tracks are on disc 4? And why are the newly recorded tracks scattered around instead of all together? Does anyone have any info?

This is the thing that's always bothered me about this boxset too. It's really weird and I find it quite frustrating! I know that John and Mick were quite heavily involved in it so maybe they had the final say on sequencing?

seekerj · #13 02-18-2010, 01:30 PM

Here's my comments on John's (wetcamelfood) last post:

Isn't It Midnight - Yes, definitely an alternate mix (and not as enjoyable to me as the mix on Tango).

Gypsy - I would vote to call this an alternate mix; during the extended time period, there are extra lyrics and the guitar solo is different because it's longer (unedited).

Second Hand News - On the many, many LPs and CDs of Rumours and I've bought throughout the years, I've noticed that sometimes I get a version with a longer guitar solo at the end of the song, and sometimes it's shorter. The shorter version seems to be the one that they put on the boxset. But because I've bought actual RUMOURS albums that have this mix, I really don't feel strongly either way whether it should be called a different mix or not.

Love In Store - This one definitely sounds different to me that the version on Mirage. The volume of the rhythm guitar during the verses is way, way lower (further back in the mix) and instead I can hear a synth more promininently. I would definiely call this an alternate mix or a remix.

The Chain - the only thing different that I can hear is that the fade out starts a lot earlier than on the version on Rumours.

Dreams - I don't hear the acoustic guitar on the choruses that I hear on the Rumours version. I miss that guitar. Either it's completely not there, or it's mixed way down. I would vote to call this an alternate mix.

Gold Dust Woman - This is the same situation as what I wrote for "Second Hand News", and what John had written so well above; some versions of the Rumours album had this version, and others had a version without a fade-in. Again, I have no strong opinion either way as to whether or not this version should be identified as a different mix since both versions appeared on the album.

Say You Love Me - obviously a different mix (and I like it better).

Lay It All Down - I think John said it all.

Angel - sounds like a different mix to me because I hear some guitars every so often that I do not hear in the version on Tusk. I would definitely vote to call this an alternate mix.

Beautiful Child - There's some cymbals (or some other percussion) that is not on the Tusk version.

Tusk - I would vote to call it an alternate mix because of the marching band intro, and the first verse isn't there.

Need Your Love So Bad - I wouldn't be the one to ask on this one.

wetcamelfood · #14 02-18-2010, 03:56 PM

Thanks seekerj, so it sounds like you agree with what we have listed as diff mixes then (minor things aside like you had said about not caring whether we listed SHN separate or not etc. BTW, it sounds to me like the same exact piece of tape they used twice in a row for the "extended" guitar solo at the end of SHN but maybe that's just me. So due to that redundancy we left it as the same).

John

GJK · #15 02-20-2010, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetcamelfood

(...) Example: Brown Eyes - you can hear on the box version they faded it in at the beginning a few seconds earlier than they did on Tusk and they faded it out a few seconds earlier on the box than they did on Tusk but for all intents and purposes we just hitched it up with the Tusk version at the time as we really didn't feel it merited being classed as its own version so to speak but by all means go through the listings and see what you think and we can discuss it here if all feel some should be counted as separate versions as to what is listed there now. (...)
John

Wow, this was a really long sentence!

GJK