Stating the obvious

[JamieSPC]

(Jamie puts on his flame suit)

I don't know if there's anything to this stuff in the Globe and Mail article about Steive being mad about something, but let's be real for just a second...

If I were Lindsey, John and Mick, I would pay VERY CLOSE ATTENTION to any suggestion Ms. Nicks has for the band, the business, the album's running order, the color shirt they should wear, etc. Through three decades she has consistently been the most commercially successful member of Fleetwood Mac, she owns the band's only #1 single, she's sitting back counting the dough from all the covers of "Landslide," and she's widely regarded as one of the most influential females in the history of rock and roll. If I were Stevie, I would (rightly) expect those credentials to carry some weight in a band situation.

(Jamie sprays himself with asbestos)

Not to belittle the contributions of the guys in the band, but take a long hard look at what happens when you take Stevie out of ANY of their respective equations: albums that bomb, businesses that fail, sham "Fleetwood Mac" bands that play on a bill with REO Speedwagon... come on.

If the goal is critical acclaim and success, I'd be willing to listen to Stevie. She's had plenty of both.

(Jamie rolls around on the floor trying to put out the flames)

And as for the much-discussed grammar errors in the new "Smile At You," why do we assume this was Stevie's doing? Have those words EVER appeared in a previous version of the song? Is that not Lindsey's voice singing them? Could it not be his own lyrical addition to the song? (I'm asking cause I don't know.)

Just some thoughts as we wait to see how the public receives a new Fleetwood Mac album that rests solely on the shoulders of Stevie and Lindsey...

Flame on if you must.

[strandinthewind]

My only gripe is your belittling of REO Speedwagon, whom I still love. I mean who else could have hit album called "You can tune a piano, but you can tuna fish" Next, you will be saying something about Pat Benatar (love her!) and I just cannot have THAT . . .

[jwys_soapbox]

You've got a point. Still, I'm taking the whole thing with a grain of salt. Most of this is probably hype. Afterall, so much of the appeal of this band is the soap opera aspect. I'm so jaded lately that I believe it's possible that the whole friction thing is a publicity tool.

John

[JamieSPC]

Still, I'm taking the whole thing with a grain of salt. Most of this is probably hype.

You're probably right. Wouldn't that be hilarious? I mean, let's not count on the MUSIC for our noteriety, for goodness sakes.

Next, you will be saying something about Pat Benatar (love her!) and I just cannot have THAT . . .

Pat Benatar = no-talent hack.

(Just kidding... I actually think she has quite the fine voice.)

[wetcamelfood]

No flames from me here, as I've stated in other threads, I'm not even reading most of these articles as I'm "not buying in to it" even "being true" as I agree that I think it's just hype and I do also agree that maybe SN's musical views may not have been taken as seriously as they maybe should have been by some of the other members etc. I guess we'll never know for sure BUT..."critical acclaim & success" SHOULDN'T be "what it's about" (though I think it unfortunately is what they (or certainly Mick) think(s) it's about).

I have no problem with FM being on a bill with ANY other artist regardless of how "superior" some people may feel FM is to those other artists. I'd rather see them "embarrassed" (for lack of a better phrase and if things need to be put in such a way) in "this way" and "bomb out" and have it be about the music than creating music for (what "I" believe is...) the wrong reasons but that's just me. I'm not saying the BN stuff is bad in comparison to other FM lineups/members or anything, I do like it just as much, I just think the "reunion" stuff is a step backwards (or at least sidewards) than forward but I've suspected Mick has cared more about the money than the music for long time now and would rather brown nose to them than just get new people and go on and let then do their solo albums (like he used to do) but I won't go there again.

So that's it, just a few sparks, it's safe to come out now.

John

Originally posted by JamieSPC
bands that play on a bill with REO Speedwagon... come on.

hey...i actually like them too! you can't mess with "Riding the Storm Out".....it's very "Rhiannon" to me! love it!

i respect your opinion though....

[David]

Originally posted by JamieSPC
(Jamie puts on his flame suit)

Why would anyone flame you for posting something interesting on this board?

I don't know if there's anything to this stuff in the Globe and Mail article about Steive being mad about something, but let's be real for just a second...

If I were Lindsey, John and Mick, I would pay VERY CLOSE ATTENTION to any suggestion Ms. Nicks has for the band, the business, the album's running order, the color shirt they should wear, etc. Through three decades she has consistently been the most commercially successful member of Fleetwood Mac, she owns the band's only #1 single, she's sitting back counting the dough from all the covers of "Landslide," and she's widely regarded as one of the most influential females in the history of rock and roll. If I were Stevie, I would (rightly) expect those credentials to carry some weight in a band situation.

What makes you think that the other members of the band aren't paying attention to Stevie's suggestions? What does that have to do with the little tiffs they all had making & mixing the album?

Not to belittle the contributions of the guys in the band, but take a long hard look at what happens when you take Stevie out of ANY of their respective equations: albums that bomb, businesses that fail, sham "Fleetwood Mac" bands that play on a bill with REO Speedwagon... come on.

Not this again! This gets argued about all the time! It's not even a "right" vs. "wrong" issue because some fans (even some fans on this here very board) think "Behind the Mask" & "Time" were splendid albums. I don't, but some do! One man's "bombs" are another man's musical gems.

If the goal is critical acclaim and success, I'd be willing to listen to Stevie. She's had plenty of both.

Now here's a statement that is half wrong. It's a verifiable fact that Stevie had the greatest commercial success of any single member of the band, but her ex-paramour was, demonstrably & by far, the critics' pet all these years, not Stevie. Hie yourself over to the Blue Letter Archives & just start reading various critics in the rock press on each of them. Start in 1977 or so & just work your way up through the decades. Buckingham was generally the critics' darling, not Stevie.

And as for the much-discussed grammar errors in the new "Smile At You," why do we assume this was Stevie's doing? Have those words EVER appeared in a previous version of the song? Is that not Lindsey's voice singing them? Could it not be his own lyrical addition to the song? (I'm asking cause I don't know.)

That's an interesting surmise, but it's unlikely. Thanks for voicing it, though---it's something to think about! Personally, I think it's a non-issue, anyway. I can probably find a grammar or usage error in every single Fleetwood Mac song. Nobody in his right mind (note the correct use of the singular pronoun) expects pop-rock songs to adhere to the rules of standard English.

[ERigby818]

Originally posted by jwys_soapbox
Most of this is probably hype. Afterall, so much of the appeal of this band is the soap opera aspect. I'm so jaded lately that I believe it's possible that the whole friction thing is a publicity tool.

Hm. I've been thinking this myself after seeing the lyrics to Thrown Down and Everybody Finds Out. It has crossed my mind...just crossed it, mind you, that they as a band might want to capitalize on the drama. I wondered that too for a minute during the Dance with those Landslide and Silver Springs moments. After finding out Lindsey was getting married (and finding out Bleed To Love Her was about Kristen) I was like, "was all that just a charade?" I'm sure I wasn't the only one who was asking that question. See, I allowed myself to get cynical for a moment. But then I'm like, smacking myself in the head, like, no, they couldn't do that...It's Lindsey and Stevie. They can't just create that out of nowhere!! And as for those lyrics on the new album, I believe Stevie would never, ever write anything with dollar signs in her eyes. She writes from her heart. Honestly, the only person who I've felt has really personally tried to capitalize on the drama was Mick with his trashy book. It's a good thing he doesn't try to sing or write songs.

As for your initial point, Jaime, sure, Stevie has earned the right to have a lot of creative control, as opposed to the suits at the record label. They should shut up and grovel at her feet, and not tell her what to do. She knows what her fans want, not them. But she should respect Lindsey's suggstions because he does have the midas touch with her Mac music and for that reason is largely responsible for her success. JMO.
-Sonia

[David]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
I'm not saying the BN stuff is bad in comparison to other FM lineups/members or anything, I do like it just as much, I just think the "reunion" stuff is a step backwards (or at least sidewards) than forward but I've suspected Mick has cared more about the money than the music for long time now and would rather brown nose to them than just get new people and go on and let then do their solo albums (like he used to do) but I won't go there again.

John, if Peter Green had rejoined Fleetwood Mac in 1997 (instead of Buckingham & McVie & Nicks), would you still consider it a step back?

Not everybody believes that Fleetwood Mac should be the Pickup Band in Eternal Personnel Flux. Personally, I think the band should have just ended on at least two or three different occasions by now. Sometimes, when bands just go away, Rhino Records can step in & start cranking out vault releases. I'd rather have that stuff than "Say You Will" or "Time" or "Trouble in Shangri-La" or "The Chain: 25 Years of Ill-Chosen Tracks."

[Les]

Originally posted by David
What makes you think that the other members of the band aren't paying attention to Stevie's suggestions? What does that have to do with the little tiffs they all had making & mixing the album?

Exactly. Because she may not have gotten her way on all things, does not mean she didn't get her way on some. I doubt highly that anyone else got things their way all the time either. People have scuffles and tiffs and eventually get over them, sooner or later.

[JamieSPC]

What makes you think that the other members of the band aren't paying attention to Stevie's suggestions? What does that have to do with the little tiffs they all had making & mixing the album?

That's the question, isn't it? Just once I'd love to hear Lindsey say, "Stevie's a brilliant writer, she deserves her success, and she's had plenty of it without me." Would that be so hard? Instead, we get, "I'm the one sorting her stuff out and turning it into songs."

Not this again! This gets argued about all the time! It's not even a "right" vs. "wrong" issue because some fans (even some fans on this here very board) think "Behind the Mask" & "Time" were splendid albums. I don't, but some do! One man's "bombs" are another man's musical gems.

I respect your opinion and anyone else's that likes these albums. I own them... (Stevie WAS on "Behind the Mask" by the way). But it's my opinion that anyone would have a hard time mounting an argument that "Time" is anywhere NEAR the same league musically as "Rumours," "Tusk," or even "Mirage." But that's all subjective.

[Vianna]

"But that's all subjective."

Exactly=:-)

I know Mac music from all the incarnations. While there are good songs from all the incarnations, I happen to like the sound produced by the Peter Green lineup and the Rumours line-up the best. This is not to say there is anything lacking from the other lineups-I just don't like the sound as much.

Stevie and Lindsey have "creative" differences all the time. Nothing new there=:-)

[BBALLGYPSY17]

Originally posted by ERigby818
Hm. I've been thinking this myself after seeing the lyrics to Thrown Down and Everybody Finds Out. It has crossed my mind...just crossed it, mind you, that they as a band might want to capitalize on the drama. I wondered that too for a minute during the Dance with those Landslide and Silver Springs moments. After finding out Lindsey was getting married (and finding out Bleed To Love Her was about Kristen) I was like, "was all that just a charade?" I'm sure I wasn't the only one who was asking that question. See, I allowed myself to get cynical for a moment. But then I'm like, smacking myself in the head, like, no, they couldn't do that...It's Lindsey and Stevie. They can't just create that out of nowhere!! And as for those lyrics on the new album, I believe Stevie would never, ever write anything with dollar signs in her eyes. She writes from her heart. Honestly, the only person who I've felt has really personally tried to capitalize on the drama was Mick with his trashy book. It's a good thing he doesn't try to sing or write songs.

Stevie OR Lindsey would *Never* intentionally write lyrics to make further Drama dents into a widely known ACCURATE personafication of themselves and their relationship. They're writing what they feel....END of story. Now am I going to say that they're not aware of what it does to the public when they make 'moon eyes' at eachother....I'm NOT NAIVE, but again, would they ever take FULL advantage of all the Rumours that continue to spread about them and bitterness,break-up, and continued sordid affairs......No way in hell! And I can't continue on the topic because people know how I feel about it

~alex~*....an act my ass...Mick in Singing/ songwriting=SCARY CONCEPT

[WindingRoad]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JamieSPC
[Just some thoughts as we wait to see how the public receives a new Fleetwood Mac album that rests solely on the shoulders of Stevie and Lindsey...


Well, I don't know anything about the music industry and the production of an album....

Also, I'm not interested in anybody's motivation for putting the album out. That's their baggage and each will have to deal with the consequences on their own...

What I AM interested in is the MUSIC ! I haven't heard much of the album yet because my computer stinks. (Trust me, if you had to wait for RealPlayer to re-buffer every 12 seconds, you'd walk away too!

My concern is that, what I HAVE heard, does not sound anything like a B/N album (as I've heard it referred to on the boards.) It sounds more to me like either Lindsey singing back-up to Stevie, or Stevie singing back-up to Lindsey.

Lindsey himself said in GWA that he'd like to do another album so that he and Stevie could build the songs together like they always had. But they couldn't do that on this album because Stevie's songs were already done when he got them.

So to say that the success of the album rests on the shoulders of Stevie and Lindsey...well, that would be a very bad scenario.

Because this album reminds me of a cook who forgot to go grocery shopping. So the cook goes into the fridge and the pantry and says, "Well, I'll take a little of this and a little of that and I've got some leftovers of this, and I'll put them all together in this here pot and see how it all comes out." Well, you KNOW it ain't gonna taste too good. It might be edible, but you probably won't LIKE it.

So, that's what worries me. Fortunately, Lidnsey is an excellent "cook". Maybe everything will turn out alright.

Susieq

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by David
John, if Peter Green had rejoined Fleetwood Mac in 1997 (instead of Buckingham & McVie & Nicks), would you still consider it a step back?

Yes, I would. I don't know where this perception comes from that I "think PG is God" because it's not true. As I've said all along and will always say, I like all of the members equally musically.

Originally posted by David
Not everybody believes that Fleetwood Mac should be the Pickup Band in Eternal Personnel Flux.

I never said and/or thought everyone else did and/or should believe that.

Originally posted by David
Personally, I think the band should have just ended on at least two or three different occasions by now. Sometimes, when bands just go away, Rhino Records can step in & start cranking out vault releases. I'd rather have that stuff than "Say You Will" or "Time" or "Trouble in Shangri-La" or "The Chain: 25 Years of Ill-Chosen Tracks."

I agree and would have been just as happy if they had ended the band, before "The dance" is the perfect example.

I too, would rather have the band end and have Rhino clean up the vault by adding what they have on the end of the remastered back catalog titles but I guess we'll have to wait and see. It just seems unfortunate that they are the type of band that would rather just "disappear" than say to the press in an official way "we've broken up" so such mopping up exercises could move along faster.

My feeling though is that if they feel as though they "have" to continue, it'd be more fresh with new personnel rather than drag out the oldies but goodies (whether it be those members from the Rumours lineup, PG days, Bob Welch era, BTM, Time or otherwise). This is JMHO just as you've stated yours and I respect how you feel and I can see what you're saying too.

(BTW, I still haven't heard back from McLees yet on the report of those remasters we heard about last week so I suspect we're getting the blow off but I will carry on as planned and send him my e mail in letter form registered mail on the 11th and assuming I don't hear back by, well, I'll just say shortly after the 25th (since I'd imagine it'll take a few days for them to receive the letter), I'll then have those of you here that are interested help me bombard him with letters etc. but more on that here shortly after the 25th )

John