The Ledge's Monthly Approval of President Obama-Do You Approve??? August 2009

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon

Oh get real. You called people who support the NHS ignorant. Back peddle all you like.. it's there in black and white.

And the end of the day you really had no clue what you were talking about. You gave what you believed to be facts (incorrectly in most part) after talking to some UK friends living in the NZ. And lets face it... if they left the UK because they weren't happy here then they're hardly going to give a glowing report about it.

Most of the UK-ers I know here left because of "better opportunity" here... None of them, as far as I know left because of (or for) the healthcare system(s)

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by carrie721

you would be a lot less obnoxious if you'd just own up to your own behavior. you said that people who support the NHS are ignorant, but somehow that blanket statement doesn't include those who support it on the ledge? dude, get a life and drop the pity party act. nobody's bought it in any of the other threads you've tried it in, nobody's buying it now.

if you stand by what you said, then nut up and stand by it. if you spoke rashly and regret it, apologize, admit you were wrong, and move on. but this wishy-washy backpedaling game you play EVERY SINGLE TIME someone calls you on your BS is really, really adolescent.

also, i'm pretty sure it's not true that NZ is part of the UK.

I said earlier in post #16 in this thread:

Well i'm sorry if I offended you, that is never my intention, but I can't unsay something. So... I don't really know what else you want.

Carrie, from my point of view, you play this "back pedaling" gag thing on me every time. I'm not selling anything. So there's nothing to "buy."

My original post was not meant to cause a row. I didn't sit down and go "Oh let's see how many Ledgies I can inentionally piss off today"...Your presumption is just as obnoxious as my "behavior."

And yes, New Zealand is technically a part of the UK, if only in theory. Queen Elizabeth is the head of state. She's even on the money here.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

I said earlier in post #16 in this thread:

Well i'm sorry if I offended you, that is never my intention, but I can't unsay something. So... I don't really know what else you want.

Carrie, from my point of view, you play this "back pedaling" gag thing on me every time. I'm not selling anything. So there's nothing to "buy."

My original post was not meant to cause a row. I didn't sit down and go "Oh let's see how many Ledgies I can inentionally piss off today"...Your presumption is just as obnoxious as my "behavior."

And yes, New Zealand is technically a part of the UK, if only in theory. Queen Elizabeth is the head of state. She's even on the money here.

Hardly the same as living here and actually knowing what your talking about concerning the NHS.

[Musicman408]

Originally Posted by carrie721

best argument ever for the NHS:

http://twitter.com/niknoks1912/status/3279762874

Thank you for posting that- interesting read!

[Black_Moon]

I live in the UK. I've never had to wait two hours for an appointment. Actually, the great thing about my clinic is that I can turn up on a whim and consult a GP straight away, no matter how minor my illness or how serious - I once had whooping cough and turned up without phoning up earlier.

I can't imagine me - or my parents, as I am only sixteen - starting to pay for my epi-pen for my anaphylaxia, or surgery should I ever need it. People below the poverty line couldn't afford to pay £2,000 for a surgery that could potentially save their life. To me, like someone said earlier, healthcare is a basic right. It's like the free school meal system or benefits. Sure, some people take advantage, but have done since these systems were set up. More often than not, however, there are people who genuinely need these services.

I think it's wrong to call me ignorant because I approve of the NHS, or don't switch to private healthcare because the flaws of a government run healthcare service don't turn me away.

[rubytuesday]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

Well, i'm living in New Zealand. So... yes, I am. Technically it IS part of the UK.

I never called anyone here ignorant, but continue to put that label on yourselves at my expense.

lol sorry but seriously!!!!??? I thought you were from New Zealand? Do they teach you that your part of the UK? New Zealand is part of the British Empire. The UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. you're part of it's territories.

Sorry but who is the ignorant one here? New Zealand is part of the UK??? lol sorry.

[BTFLCHLD]

I found this interesting:

The NHS provides healthcare services for more than 95% of the UK's 60 million residents. Between 2007 and 2008, 6.5 million appointments were missed with hospitals losing around £100 per patient in revenue.

I am thankful I have health insurance. Would I want a neighbor, friend or foe, that can't afford health insurance to go without care? NO.

[Black_Moon]

Originally Posted by BTFLCHLD

I found this interesting:

The NHS provides healthcare services for more than 95% of the UK's 60 million residents. Between 2007 and 2008, 6.5 million appointments were missed with hospitals losing around £100 per patient in revenue.

I am thankful I have health insurance. Would I want a neighbor, friend or foe, that can't afford health insurance to go without care? NO.

And there are over sixty-one million people who live in the UK. That's like what, around 10%? Not a huge number, by any means.

[Gailh]

Originally Posted by Black_Moon

To me, like someone said earlier, healthcare is a basic right. It's like the free school meal system or benefits. Sure, some people take advantage, but have done since these systems were set up. More often than not, however, there are people who genuinely need these services.

I agree. We are not born equal but one of things that can help balance things up a little is decent healthcare (decent education is another)

I'm not sure if our NHS system would work in the states but it suits us. it's not perfect by any means but some of nonsense that has been said about it beggars belief. My father had a hernia operation when he was in his mid seventies and had altzheimers. My mother has just had a succesful cataract operation and she is 79. Neither of them could have afforded that without the NHS. I am usually able to see my GP within a day or so (they also have appointments every day held aside for urgent matters)

Gail

[David]

I'm not looking forward to the inevitable bureaucratic nightmare that healthcare & health insurance will become in the United States with the new policies. It's a nightmare now -- & millions of us have private insurance (like group insurance at work) -- so it will be double or triply so in the future.

Philosophically, I don't consider healthcare a right. I don't consider anything a right that someone has to involuntarily supply (which means I'm not talking about obvious cases like contracts, where agreements have been made & money has been paid).

If heart surgery (for example) is my right, then somewhere a heart surgeon is ipso facto under government compulsion to supply it to me. This doesn't fly in my book.

I'd like to see more opt-in systems instituted: opt in to a public library system, for example, by paying for it voluntarily & then being given use of it all year. Naturally, the particular social service would be only as big as the funds from, say, the prior year were able to accommodate.

(Remember that healthcare is free only if the doctor or nurse has agreed to fix me for free.)

We can use opt-in in so many ways! Virtually our entire income tax filing form should be a series of YES/NO boxes, like the box for DO YOU WANT TO GIVE $1 FOR POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS. I certainly feel that opt-in should play a big role in centrally controlled health insurance coverage. (Police, fire departments, freeways, district attorneys -- stuff that you could very well need & use whether you say you want it or not -- would continue to be funded via taxation.)

It might be hard to keep track of which of the 360 million people opted in to, say, the city park or the subway system -- but that's what implant chips are for!

I'd also like other markets -- like the market for health insurance & healthcare -- to move toward freer models, like the buying & selling of personal computers in this country (just about the freest market I can think of, & just about the most successful for all involved: sellers & buyers).

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by David

It might be hard to keep track of which of the 360 million people opted in to, say, the city park or the subway system -- but that's what implant chips are for!

there's that indomitable libertarian spirit!

[Gailh]

Originally Posted by David

Philosophically, I don't consider healthcare a right. I don't consider anything a right that someone has to involuntarily supply (which means I'm not talking about obvious cases like contracts, where agreements have been made & money has been paid).

If heart surgery (for example) is my right, then somewhere a heart surgeon is ipso facto under government compulsion to supply it to me. This doesn't fly in my book.

Remember that healthcare is free only if the doctor or nurse has agreed to fix me for free.)

What about education?

Gail

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by rubytuesday

lol sorry but seriously!!!!??? I thought you were from New Zealand? Do they teach you that your part of the UK? New Zealand is part of the British Empire. The UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. you're part of it's territories.

Sorry but who is the ignorant one here? New Zealand is part of the UK??? lol sorry.

no I wasn't serious. That's why I said "technically"

It's a joke among Kiwis that Mother England would come to the rescue if pirates tried to take over.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon

Hardly the same as living here and actually knowing what your talking about concerning the NHS.

Just because I don't live there doesn't mean what I said wasn't in some way truthful. But, perhaps I should bow down to your superior healthcare, which seems to be the model which we should all strive for.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

no I wasn't serious. That's why I said "technically"

It's a joke among Kiwis that Mother England would come to the rescue if pirates tried to take over.

dude, come on.