The Ledge's Monthly Approval of President Obama-Do You Approve??? August 2009

[mylittledemon]

Hey, it's just my opinion. I never said I was the patron saint of UK Healthcare here.

If you want to have a battle royale about it because my opinion (whether educated enough to your liking or not) doesn't line up with your own, then forget it.

[mylittledemon]

You'll note my thoughts on NHS were made long before anyone came to the defense of it. So therefore I never outright called anyone here "ignorant." I won't be baited into a name calling session here. It's like watching a bunch of elementary school kids for Christsake, arguing over a point simply because one person feels the opposite.

In terms of New Zealand healthcare, I like the fact that you can readily get more medicine over the counter. My wife takes Voltaren, which was prescribed to her in the U.S. for her lupus. Here she can get it over the counter. But, it's expensive. That being said we've had to pay out the arse for doc visits ($900 recently) but we are not "residents" yet. I suppose that will all change in the coming months and it won't be so costly..?

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

Hey, it's just my opinion. I never said I was the patron saint of UK Healthcare here.

If you want to have a battle royale about it because my opinion (whether educated enough to your liking or not) doesn't line up with your own, then forget it.

Roll your eyes all you like if it makes you feel better. But again I suggest you re-read you original post on this matter. You didn't appear to be posting an opinion but facts (incorrect for the most part) and you labeled people in support of the NHS as 'ignorant basically'

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon

Roll your eyes all you like if it makes you feel better. '

It does make me feel better. Deal with it.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

You'll note my thoughts on NHS were made long before anyone came to the defense of it. So therefore I never outright called anyone here "ignorant." I won't be baited into a name calling session here. It's like watching a bunch of elementary school kids for Christsake, arguing over a point simply because one person feels the opposite.

In terms of New Zealand healthcare, I like the fact that you can readily get more medicine over the counter. My wife takes Voltaren, which was prescribed to her in the U.S. for her lupus. Here she can get it over the counter. But, it's expensive. That being said we've had to pay out the arse for doc visits ($900 recently) but we are not "residents" yet. I suppose that will all change in the coming months and it won't be so costly..?

It has nothing to do with thinking the opposite and everything to do with how you presented your post

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon

It has nothing to do with thinking the opposite and everything to do with how you presented your post

Well i'm sorry if I offended you, that is never my intention, but I can't unsay something. So... I don't really know what else you want.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Backtrack if you like Brandon, of course you knew there would be people here who wouldn't agree with your assessment, you posted in the last thread about the NHS afterall.
Also you won't be baited into "name calling sessions"? Didn't you just call us all "elementary school kids" as if we're idiots for disagreeing with you?

Oye. Ermm... no, I didnt call you that... I was making a comparison with the argument.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Backtrack if you like Brandon, of course you knew there would be people here who wouldn't agree with your assessment, you posted in the last thread about the NHS afterall.

I dont recall that particular previous NHS discussion... But, boy your brain retains more information than a robot! Are... are you... .a robot?

[jannieC]

I can't believe that anyone would think that basic healthcare is a "perk". I'm almost speechless.

[mylittledemon]

It is a perk... of the civilized world. What I'm saying is it's a very narrow field of folks who we're talking about here. Most people pay their taxes, they work, they contribute to society. We're talking about a very narrow window of folk who "ruin it" it for everyone else... thus the need for this recent overhaul of the American healthcare system. I've been relatively healthy my whole life, and haven't had the need for any real extensive medical treatment. Part of me actually doesn't mind that my tax dollars go to help the less fortunate. But I'm not happy about lazy bums who want to mooch off the system.

[jannieC]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

It is a perk... of the civilized world. What I'm saying is it's a very narrow field of folks who we're talking about here. Most people pay their taxes, they work, they contribute to society. We're talking about a very narrow window of folk who "ruin it" it for everyone else... thus the need for this recent overhaul of the American healthcare system. I've been relatively healthy my whole life, and haven't had the need for any real extensive medical treatment. Part of me actually doesn't mind that my tax dollars go to help the less fortunate. But I'm not happy about lazy bums who want to mooch off the system.

How do you define the lazy bum? Approximately 23% of the homeless population is mentally ill. There *are* people who cannot work, Brandon. Paying taxes shouldn't automatically make one "worthy" of basic medical care. You're young and your ideas/statements reflect that.

[BombaySapphire3]

The near psychotic meanspiritedness of some of the protesters at the recent townhall meetings regarding healthcare boggles my mind.Funny how the vast majority of these rightwingnuts would proclaim themselves "Christian" but let them have to spend a cent to help those less fortunate than themselves and they become anything but what one would think that word would signify.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by jannieC

How do you define the lazy bum? Approximately 23% of the homeless population is mentally ill. There *are* people who cannot work, Brandon. Paying taxes shouldn't automatically make one "worthy" of basic medical care. You're young and your ideas/statements reflect that.

Well maybe once I've had kids, I'll feel differently about it. Once I'm struggling (God forbid) to take care of my own family it'll make more sense that even more of my income goes to take care of bums. By bums I mean people who don't work. Those than CAN contribute to society and choose not to. There are moochers and maybe I'm pessimistic but I think this new system is going to be taken advantage of more than it's going to help.

So what is your solution in terms of the mentally ill and/or homeless people? Should everyone be provided with the daily medication they need? Free of charge? That would be GREAT in a perfect world, but for myself, I cannot in good conscience agree to let my tax dollars pay for that (whoops, I'm not cause I'm not in America anymore) but you get the point.

[mylittledemon]

Hey, BombaySapphire... This is just one particular instance but it makes a point nevertheless...


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Who Gives and Who Doesn't?
Putting the Stereotypes to the Test
By JOHN STOSSEL and KRISTINA KENDALL
Nov. 28, 2006

There are a million ways to give to charity. Toy drives, food drives, school supply drives…telethons, walkathons, and dance-athons.

But just who is doing the giving? Three quarters of American families donate to charity, giving $1,800 each, on average. Of course, if three quarters give, that means that one quarter don't give at all. So what distinguishes those who give from those who don't? It turns out there are many myths about that.

Sioux Falls vs. San Francisco

We assume the rich give more than the middle class, the middle class more than the poor. I've heard liberals care more about the less fortunate, so we assume they give more than conservatives do. Are these assumptions truth, or myth?

To test what types of people give more, "20/20" went to two very different parts of the country, with contrasting populations: Sioux Falls, S.D. and San Francisco, Calif. The Salvation Army set up buckets at the busiest locations in each city -- Macy's in San Francisco and Wal-Mart in Sioux Falls. Which bucket collected more money?

Sioux Falls is rural and religious; half of the population goes to church every week. People in San Francisco make much more money, are predominantly liberal, and just 14 percent of people in San Francisco attend church every week. Liberals are said to care more about helping the poor; so did people in San Francisco give more?

It turns out that this idea that liberals give more…is a myth. Of the top 25 states where people give an above average percent of their income, 24 were red states in the last presidential election.

Arthur Brooks, the author of "Who Really Cares," says that "when you look at the data, it turns out the conservatives give about 30 percent more." He adds, "And incidentally, conservative-headed families make slightly less money."

And he says the differences in giving goes beyond money, pointing out that conservatives are 18 percent more likely to donate blood. He says this difference is not about politics, but about the different way conservatives and liberals view government.

"You find that people who believe it's the government's job to make incomes more equal, are far less likely to give their money away," Brooks says. In fact, people who disagree with the statement, "The government has a basic responsibility to take care of the people who can't take care of themselves," are 27 percent more likely to give to charity.
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[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by jannieC

How do you define the lazy bum? Approximately 23% of the homeless population is mentally ill. There *are* people who cannot work, Brandon. Paying taxes shouldn't automatically make one "worthy" of basic medical care. You're young and your ideas/statements reflect that.

Sadly age may not have that much to do with it..Most of the protesters at the town hall meetings are clearly in the geriatric set.