Fleetwood Mac and the Great Expectations Tour.

[iamnotafraid]

We need a reality check for the Fleetwood Mac Unleashed Tour. Some things need to be examined further. I am not implying putting your rose colored glasses on to judge Stevie, Lindsey, Mick and John. Just a few things to consider before making harsh judgements on this band that has given us all many, many great years of enjoyment.

1. Consider their age. No one can be as good at 60 years of age
as they were in their 20', 30's and 40's. Most especially singing.
Musicianship may improve, styles evolve, but overall energy and
enthusiasm diminishes as one gets older.

2. You can only be "New" once. That appiles to everyone in music.
From Elvis to someone like Taylor Swift, you are lucky to have five
years in the music business to put out what people consider new
or fresh music. And it's not that people are incapable of producing
good music past the five year period, it's just that someone else
comes along and creates something the public considers new and
refreshing. Consider Fleetwood Mac's years from 1975 to 1980. Did
they ever top Tusk, or the records the preceded it? Of course not,
who expected them to? And now we are nearly 30 years past Tusk,
and that is surely something to consider.

3. Now for those of us that have seen them more than once in concert.
Multiple times seeing the same artist can kill the great concert
experience. I know this from my own experience. Nothing compares
to the first time I see an artist. There's just an excitement that's
almost indescribable of seeing your favorite group or artist in concert
for the first time.

4. Now think about touring without new material. Yes, it was their
choice, but they made it clear that was what they were going to do.
This stagnation is partly the reason for their recent performance
quality.

5. Most like to complain about the ticket prices. This is more common
in today's economy, but has always taken place. Not so long ago,
fifteen dollars seemed like a lot to pay for a concert ticket. But it's
your choice to attend a show, or even pay the extra for the special
packages that they are offering.
_____________________________________________________________

That being said, they should give it their all. Purchasing a ticket
should guarantee you that the artist or group will give everything
they've got in performance. Just Remember they are "people" too.
They have good days and bad days just like the rest of us. One
thing that I know for a fact is, that they have given us plenty of
good days.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

1. Consider their age. No one can be as good at 60 years of age
as they were in their 20', 30's and 40's. Most especially singing.
Musicianship may improve, styles evolve, but overall energy and
enthusiasm diminishes as one gets older.

It depends on the artist.

2. You can only be "New" once. That appiles to everyone in music.
From Elvis to someone like Taylor Swift, you are lucky to have five
years in the music business to put out what people consider new
or fresh music. And it's not that people are incapable of producing
good music past the five year period, it's just that someone else
comes along and creates something the public considers new and
refreshing. Consider Fleetwood Mac's years from 1975 to 1980. Did
they ever top Tusk, or the records the preceded it? Of course not,
who expected them to? And now we are nearly 30 years past Tusk,
and that is surely something to consider.

Fleetwood Mac has been new several times. Just ask Peter Green and Bob Welch.

3. Now for those of us that have seen them more than once in concert.
Multiple times seeing the same artist can kill the great concert
experience. I know this from my own experience. Nothing compares
to the first time I see an artist. There's just an excitement that's
almost indescribable of seeing your favorite group or artist in concert
for the first time.

Again, it depends on the artist. I first saw Guided by Voices in 1995, which was their "classic" era. The show was okay (mainly ruined by drunk coeds), but nothing that blew me away. I was blown away when the next time I saw them in 2002, and that became what I would judge other shows by. I was floored when I saw their last Dayton (hometown) show in 2004. I was floored by a solo Robert Pollard (who basically was Guided by Voices) in 2006. It was after seeing Lindsey in 2006 that I decided to focus more Robert Pollard/Guided by Voices. When Robert Pollard toured a few months back with Boston Spaceships, I was blown away and had a great time every show (okay, the ending of the Nashville show kinda sucked). Yeah, Bob doesn't do nearly as many high kicks as before, the intensity of his music has only gotten better. And, his ticket prices were $15 a ticket.

[louielouie2000]

I really do understand that it bothers many fans that so many of us are disgruntled right now. I think it bothers those of us who are disgruntled, that others aren't disgruntled too LOL. Bottom line is I'm glad all of the band members past and present have survived the ride, and are still performing. Mainly I think people are irked by the details of this latest tour, not the bigger picture. They are offended by the high ticket prices in a painful recession, the lack of new material, the indifference Stevie is portraying, etc. It just is coming across as a blatant cash grab to many.

For comparison, I just saw BB King last year. He is in his 80s, yet he was still extremely engaging and entertaining. He seemed so very honest and real, he spent almost as much time conversing with his audience as he did performing. He was touring behind a new album, had surprise guests, AND his tickets were HALF what Fleetwood Mac's are. You can tell he's doing it for the love of the craft, he genuinely LOVED performing, loved sharing his new songs, and was just glowing and thankful to still be performing and sharing his time and music with people. I just don't get that from the Mac these days, well, mainly Stevie. She just seems to be with the Mac because a gun is held up to her head, and the whole venture seems to be happening in order to pay down their credit cards.

I know I for one am just frustrated, because I think if the band had a better work ethic, they could be putting out the best material of their careers. Trouble In Shangri La and Gift of Screws contained some of Lindsey and Stevie's best material to date. With a clean slate, they could be making such great music as a band. It just seems egos and stubborn ways are wasting dwindling time. But if this latest tour truly is a set up to a fantastic swan song album for the band... it'll be worth it .

[trackaghost]

This thread seems silly to me. If you paid your money and didn't enjoy the show, felt the band wasn't on form, you shouldn't have to consider anything: it's how you feel about it.
And I've seen quite a few artists who are in their 60s who still put on electrifying performances. The multiple concerts thing doesn't work for me either because people grow, they change their minds and their tastes change too. Plus some artists change their sets, do different types of shows. And I'm not even talking tour to tour, I'm talking show to show.

[michaelD]

They seem to be limited by the catalog they're touring behind. I wasn't going to make a decision to see them or not, until I saw the setlist. I can't justfiy spending the cash, to see a band who's re-hashing old tunes.

It's called the Unleashed tour... so GET UNLEASHED!!!!
How about leaving Stand Back and Go Insane out (this IS a FM tour... right?)
and maybe add a Straight Back and Caroline? I think somebody else mentioned energy... enthusiasm!!! UNLEASH the demons, get pissed, and rock out!

Yes, they're 60... Tell that to Mick Jagger!

[BTFLCHLD]

considering this is DAY 2, this is going to be one looong assss tour.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Fleetwood Mac has been new several times. Just ask Peter Green and Bob Welch.

Unfortunately many aren't familiar with Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac.
And I really don't care for Bob's version. Most of his music was boring
to me. So for good or bad, a high percentage of fans consider the Mac
to be the Buckingham Nicks' version. We did miss out on a lot of good
music due to Peter's unfortunate circumstances.

And to everyone else, I didn't say you can't judge them about their
performance (who would listen to me?). I just think everyone should
be realistic about their expectations.

They seem to be danged if they do, and danged if they don't.

[sjpdg]

This is an interesting thread to me. I have a wide range of musical interests and have seen both younger artists and older artists who's performances have been mixed.

I've seen the Mac four times, only once with the "Rumours" line up. The previous 3 times were with Rick and Billy and I had an awesome time at all 3 of those shows and at "The Dance" tour show I went to. Both versions of the band rocked out, but I saw a limit to the material being played when it was back to Lindsey as the male vocal/solo guitarist. It was all material that only he and Stevie had contributed to the band. Nothing else. There was new material "My Little Demon", "Bleed To Love Her", "Sweet Girl", etc, they even dusted off "Farmer's Daughter" when I saw them, but still it was all only their material, nothing from the days of the "Green God", which Rick and Billy put back in the set during their days with FM. I missed that when Lindsey returned.

I totally agree with MichaelD in that dropping their solo career hits for more FM material would add to the show for sure. If they are to be truly "Unleashed", then they should unleash some really rare material or stuff that hasn't been played live in 20 or so years.

As far as the age of the artist goes, I saw Willie Nelson in San Francisco in January of this year and that guy has still got it, no doubt in my mind. He's about 77 years old and while some of his more recent CD's have been ok but not fantastic, his live performance is still as fresh as I've ever seen him, and this was about the 8th or 9th time I've seen him live. There were only 2 relatively new songs in his set but he has such a huge catalogue of songs to choose from, he pulled out things I'd never heard him play live and it was fantastic. Fleetwood Mac could stand to do the same.

Stand Back is a Stevie solo hit that belongs on her tour, not on the FM tour. I've always thought this, even though the band does a great job of it. Lindsey could leave "Go Insane" at home, again despite his great performances of this song when with FM. These could be replaced with older FM tunes from "Fleetwood Mac/Fleetwood Mac", "Mirage", or with "Green Manalishi" or "Rattlesnake Shake".

Being a huge fan of Mick's (I used FM CD's to teach myself to play the drums), I could even stand to see him change the place of his drum solo to some other song. I'm sure they could find something, and I've said so on other threads here.

I think the bulk of the "disgruntled" opinion here is on the lack of "new-older material" that's been pulled out for this tour, based on the setlist. We all know these songs and know what to expect when we hear them. This is different in the case of "Green Manalishi" or "Planets of the Universe" or "Crystal" or "That's Alright" which haven't been heard live in God only knows how long. "Unleash" those kinds of songs and I think a lot of the complaints you see here could be silenced.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject.

[jmn3]

Originally Posted by michaelD

Yes, they're 60... Tell that to Mick Jagger!

Come on, I'm a huge Stones fan, but this comparison made me smile. The Stones message boards are filled with fans bitching about the setlist all the time when they are on tour due to the band's reliance on "the hits." You can be about 90% sure when attending one of their concerts that you will hear Satisfaction, Jumpin Jack Flash, Honky Tonk Woman, Miss You, It's Only Rock and Roll, Brown Sugar, Sympathy for the Devil, and so on. They toured in 2005-07 behind a new album, A Bigger Bang, which I thought was filled with great songs. When I saw them shortly after the tour started they played a whopping three songs from it, and aside from those three, two songs were from 1994 and after that the songs in the remainder of the 21 song set were from 1981 or earlier.

That being said, I had a fantastic show last week Sunday and felt that they were worth going to see!

[jmn3]

Originally Posted by sjpdg

I've seen the Mac four times, only once with the "Rumours" line up. The previous 3 times were with Rick and Billy and I had an awesome time at all 3 of those shows and at "The Dance" tour show I went to. Both versions of the band rocked out, but I saw a limit to the material being played when it was back to Lindsey as the male vocal/solo guitarist. It was all material that only he and Stevie had contributed to the band. Nothing else. There was new material "My Little Demon", "Bleed To Love Her", "Sweet Girl", etc, they even dusted off "Farmer's Daughter" when I saw them, but still it was all only their material, nothing from the days of the "Green God", which Rick and Billy put back in the set during their days with FM. I missed that when Lindsey returned.

Well, Lindsey has basically expressed his desire to not play songs he didn't write. I think for many years, including right now, he begrudgingly played Oh Well which I would tend to think gets suggested by Mick (I have no fact behind this, just a hunch). Other than Oh Well, they stopped pulling out pre-75 stuff after the Rumours tour. And if nothing else, they played the old stuff then for the same reason the 87-90 band did. They needed to fill a set list which required going to the back catalog. The 87-90 band certainly didn't want to have Billy or Rick just singing all of Lindsey's songs in the set which is why you don't see many there.

I honestly can not see the 2009 band playing Hypnotized or Green Manalishi. And if they did, they'd likely get panned here by some who would feel their vocal range couldn't handle the songs or the background singers were too loud or Lindsey can't play guitar like Peter and so on.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

I really do understand that it bothers many fans that so many of us are disgruntled right now. I think it bothers those of us who are disgruntled, that others aren't disgruntled too LOL. Bottom line is I'm glad all of the band members past and present have survived the ride, and are still performing. Mainly I think people are irked by the details of this latest tour, not the bigger picture. They are offended by the high ticket prices in a painful recession, the lack of new material, the indifference Stevie is portraying, etc. It just is coming across as a blatant cash grab to many.

For comparison, I just saw BB King last year. He is in his 80s, yet he was still extremely engaging and entertaining. He seemed so very honest and real, he spent almost as much time conversing with his audience as he did performing. He was touring behind a new album, had surprise guests, AND his tickets were HALF what Fleetwood Mac's are. You can tell he's doing it for the love of the craft, he genuinely LOVED performing, loved sharing his new songs, and was just glowing and thankful to still be performing and sharing his time and music with people. I just don't get that from the Mac these days, well, mainly Stevie. She just seems to be with the Mac because a gun is held up to her head, and the whole venture seems to be happening in order to pay down their credit cards.

I know I for one am just frustrated, because I think if the band had a better work ethic, they could be putting out the best material of their careers. Trouble In Shangri La and Gift of Screws contained some of Lindsey and Stevie's best material to date. With a clean slate, they could be making such great music as a band. It just seems egos and stubborn ways are wasting dwindling time. But if this latest tour truly is a set up to a fantastic swan song album for the band... it'll be worth it .

I saw B.B. King the year he turned 80. He was really funny. Yes, he talks to the audience, tells stories & I love his singing & guitar playing. So I know what you mean. I wouldn't mind seeing him again.

As for seeing Fleetwood Mac, I've only got to see them one time. I got into the Mac late (saw The Dance on PBS). I really miss Christine. And I have to say, from what I remember, when I saw them live, I was entertained. I'd say probably entertained the most by Lindsey though. I've never seen Lindsey solo, but I've seen Stevie numerous times & I think I may not go & see her live again unless she comes out with some new music. (I'm not holding my breath either )

And I know what everyone is talking about by concert burn-out. I've seen Hall & Oates numerous times. They are about the same age the the Mac members. I love seeing them, but now you know, I've seen them enough. They don't put out any new material. The last show was all just mostly sitting down with their guitars (though at the end they came to life a little) & I was kind of bored. They might have been bored, too.

So I don't know. It really depends on the artist as to whether they should just keep on touring.

Lee

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by Lee

I've seen Stevie numerous times & I think I may not go & see her live again unless she comes out with some new music.

I know what everyone is talking about by concert burn-out.

I passed on Stevie's last solo tour because of three things.

(1). The concert burn-out that's been mentioned.
(2). Same set-list (pretty much).
(3). The particular venue offered a bad seating arrangement.

So only one of the three reasons was Stevie's fault.
Seeing them multiple times was my decision, and I enjoyed
each time. Each show was unique. But I kind of wanted to
end with them on a high note, and I did.

Now if I'd known how good the Soundstage Concert was going
to be, I would have had to call in a favor and get a ticket. She
will have a hard time topping that performance at this late date.