Hello & Demo Question

[StevieAteMyCat]

Hi everybody! I lurked on occasion many moons ago and used to post on the SN/FM AOL boards and newsgroups back around 1999-2001/2. David is the only person I recognize thus far. I haven't really followed the band or its members much in recent years, so I figured now would be a nice time to catch up, and you seem like a great bunch.

Does somebody have a detailed list of demos/outtakes and their sources? There are vague titles like "Stevie Nicks Demos & Outtakes Vol. 1," more direct titles like "Wild Heart Outtakes," and what I assume are "professional" bootleg names like "Mirror Ball Demos." Am I correct in assuming that there is much overlap between these various compilations? If somebody has a detailed explanation of what's what, I would be very appreciative.

[saintbernard]

Does somebody have a detailed list of demos/outtakes and their sources? There are vague titles like "Stevie Nicks Demos & Outtakes Vol. 1," more direct titles like "Wild Heart Outtakes," and what I assume are "professional" bootleg names like "Mirror Ball Demos." Am I correct in assuming that there is much overlap between these various compilations? If somebody has a detailed explanation of what's what, I would be very appreciative.

Welcome to the Ledge! I've been a member of a lot of FM/SN boards and I will honestly tell you that this is the only one I really feel comfortable coming to anymore. I think you will like it here!

There are a lot of different demo discs out there and most of them have pretty catchy names to them. While I'm sure there are a few that were released by bootleggers for profit I've always assumed that most of them were created by fans and whoever created them just put a catchy name on there that they felt in some way described the contents of the disc or that they thought just sounded good.

I think overlapping on demo sets goes beyond just the contents of the discs. Some sets are rather generically named with "Demos & Outtakes" and then a number and you will find instances of two or more sets having similiar sounding names or the exact same name. There are two different sets titled "Lady From the Mountain". One is a two disc set while the other has just one disc. There are two one disc compilations named "Crystal Visions" and "Crystal Clear Visions" respectively and an 8 disc set named "Crystal Visions". Then you will find "Mirror Ball" and "Mirror Image". For someone just starting out trading all these similiar names can be confusing!

It has been my experience that there is quite a bit of overlap in the contents of the various compilations. While I was really into trading and keeping up the old web site I used to work on (which I keep telling myself I will get around to updating again but keep putting off) I used to keep Word document where I cataloged every demo disc I traded for, what was on it, the version and the running time of the song. I have 36 appearances of The Dealer on that list from numerous FM/SN discs (this includes 2 discs of master takes). There are probably about that many instances of Julia and Lady From the Mountain appearing on various discs not including master takes. I don't have every demo set or disc out there and I haven't traded for any of the "newer" compilations that fans on other boards have been making so I can't include statistics for any of those in my figures.

Unless you trade with someone specifically for individual demos and outtakes or come to this board and go through the demo threads where individual demos and outtakes are being posted and build a collection from there I believe it's inevitable that you are going to get a lot of repeats if you just go out and start collecting discs. I haven't really found that demo & outtake discs have thier contents described in as much detail as live shows do so traders know exactly which version of a song is on which disc.

I remember several years ago I did a rather large 2 for 1 for someone who wanted a copy of every single demo disc I had. When they received the discs I got quite a nasty email back from the person demanding to know why I sent them so many repeated songs on the demo discs when I should have only sent them one copy of each song seeing as how there were so many different instances of a song listed on my trade page. It was after that experience I made sure to add a note to my trading guidelines and the Bootleg FAQ I had created about the repeated songs on the demo discs.

I know of two places where you can find lists of demos and outtakes.

The first is Shel's awesome trade site. She's gone through her collection and made an A-Z list of the demos and outtakes.

http://www.welshwitch.net/ I believe her list can be found in her "Demos & Outtakes" section. There is a link for "All the Demos & Outtakes" or something of that nature.

I've also got the (very old) lists I made still on the Internet. Bear in mind that I haven't updated this site since the Highway Companion tour started so I'm positive you will find some errors on it and some things that have recently come into circulation (like the TISL rehearsal) that aren't listed at all.

http://www.geocities.com/the3birdsofrhiannon Click on the "discographies" link and it will take you to a page where you can choose Fleetwood Mac, Stevie Nicks or Lindsey Buckingham. I haven't included any master reels with the "common" demos. Master reels have thier own page and it is not complete at this time. I'm pretty sure the common demos lists that are online have some notes about which demo discs some of the tracks can be found on as well.

I have every intention of updating those lists at some point in the near future. I have gone through all my old demo discs and pulled off all the different versions of each song that I could find and have them stored on the hard drive. I'm going through song by song and making notes on them (about halfway through right now) and am working my way through the master reels and single tracks slowly. I hope to get it all typed up and online in some form within the next few months. In the meantime, I do hope you can find some use in the lists.

I don't go to a lot of fan sites anymore so there might be other resources like the two mentioned above on the net somewhere that someone else could suggest.

Sorry for the rambling and I hope this helped!

[JazmenFlowers]

Originally Posted by StevieAteMyCat

Hi everybody! I lurked on occasion many moons ago and used to post on the SN/FM AOL boards and newsgroups back around 1999-2001/2. David is the only person I recognize thus far. I haven't really followed the band or its members much in recent years, so I figured now would be a nice time to catch up, and you seem like a great bunch.

Does somebody have a detailed list of demos/outtakes and their sources? There are vague titles like "Stevie Nicks Demos & Outtakes Vol. 1," more direct titles like "Wild Heart Outtakes," and what I assume are "professional" bootleg names like "Mirror Ball Demos." Am I correct in assuming that there is much overlap between these various compilations? If somebody has a detailed explanation of what's what, I would be very appreciative.

first off, your screen name is genious. may I ask how you chose it?

second, a complete list of demos and outtakes is a constant source of pain for most of us "completists" - the above-mentioned links are great sources and I know Peter (MacMan) has a great one as well. for the most part you just have to do the best you can and not be too anal about it. there are a LOT of duplicate version with varying sound quality and some that have minimal differences. I may still have a chart I started a while back that I'll send you...if I find it.

[StevieAteMyCat]

Thank you both very much for the explanations and links. It helps a great deal. I've only been collecting and trading shows from various performers for about a year, but I've noticed that demos and outtakes seem pretty rare, even for bands that have thousands of concerts floating around. I rarely see more than a disc or two of demos from early in their career or a disc or two of outtakes from the recording of an album album, so the large amount of Stevie and Stevie-era Mac stuff circulating seemed pretty overwhelming.

I really like the current look of the board. How long has it been this way? I think the old layout was part of what kept me from getting involved. I also like the fact that chit-chat has its own forum. While I remember various FM boards being pretty serious back in the day, it seemed like SN ones, fun as they were, were so off-topic that everybody started wondering "Does anybody here really like Stevie? Nobody ever mentions her."

I wish I had a cute "I baked cat-shaped cookies for Stevie" or "I cut Stevie off in traffic and she threatened to waterboard my grandmother and eat my cat" story, but I just wanted a name related to FM in some way, and it was the first thing that came to mind. Of course, the next time I have trouble locating my cat, I will probably fall to my knees, look to the sky, and shout "Damn you, Stevie Nicks!"

[UndoingTheLaces]

Originally Posted by StevieAteMyCat

Of course, the next time I have trouble locating my cat, I will probably fall to my knees, look to the sky, and shout "Damn you, Stevie Nicks!"

I used to work at a swanky Hollywood Hotel some years ago and one time Michael Stipe of REM was there and had asked me to ship some boxes. I was dealing with a back injury and couldn't lift too much at once, and the post office I usually went to in hollywood has no parking. So I stood there in the office looking at these three boxes trying to figure out how I was going to get them from my car into the post office without being able to pick them all up at once because of my back and I swear I shook my hand and said, "Damn you Michael Stipe" and meant it. I felt bad later because he actually was a really nice guy. But for the longest time after I had told my friends this story, every time one of us had a moment of frustration we would say "Damn you Michael Stipe". And then we would laugh and feel better. LOL!

[Sahara]

Originally Posted by StevieAteMyCat

I wish I had a cute "I baked cat-shaped cookies for Stevie" or "I cut Stevie off in traffic and she threatened to waterboard my grandmother and eat my cat" story, but I just wanted a name related to FM in some way, and it was the first thing that came to mind. Of course, the next time I have trouble locating my cat, I will probably fall to my knees, look to the sky, and shout "Damn you, Stevie Nicks!"

You might want to get that checked out
Heehee, welcome to the Ledge, love the username and thanks for asking such an interesting question ... this stuff is good to know!

Hope you enjoy your time here

[StevieAteMyCat]

Originally Posted by UndoingTheLaces

I used to work at a swanky Hollywood Hotel some years ago and one time Michael Stipe of REM was there and had asked me to ship some boxes. I was dealing with a back injury and couldn't lift too much at once, and the post office I usually went to in hollywood has no parking. So I stood there in the office looking at these three boxes trying to figure out how I was going to get them from my car into the post office without being able to pick them all up at once because of my back and I swear I shook my hand and said, "Damn you Michael Stipe" and meant it. I felt bad later because he actually was a really nice guy. But for the longest time after I had told my friends this story, every time one of us had a moment of frustration we would say "Damn you Michael Stipe". And then we would laugh and feel better. LOL!

Great story, and damning somebody like that really is fun. I've always believed that Stipe and Nicks were conspiring in some way. One performed "Stand" and the other "Stand Back." The only difference between the two is that Stevie got "back." "Stand" was also the theme for Chris Elliott's show "Get a Life." Elliott apparently played Stevie in a parody music video during one of his many times on David (used to be married to Stevie, you know) Letterman's show back in the '80s. I'm fairly certain Elliott, Nicks, and Stipe were the three tramps at Dealey Plaza.

[StevieAteMyCat]

Originally Posted by Sahara

You might want to get that checked out
Heehee, welcome to the Ledge, love the username and thanks for asking such an interesting question ... this stuff is good to know!

Hope you enjoy your time here

People tell me that often, but I figure it's probably just a sprained ankle. Thank you for the welcome. I'm enjoying my time here already.

[UndoingTheLaces]

Originally Posted by StevieAteMyCat

Great story, and damning somebody like that really is fun. I've always believed that Stipe and Nicks were conspiring in some way. One performed "Stand" and the other "Stand Back." The only difference between the two is that Stevie got "back." "Stand" was also the theme for Chris Elliott's show "Get a Life." Elliott apparently played Stevie in a parody music video during one of his many times on David (used to be married to Stevie, you know) Letterman's show back in the '80s. I'm fairly certain Elliott, Nicks, and Stipe were the three tramps at Dealey Plaza.

OMG, you are MY kind of nutjob. I... I... think I love you. (and if you bring David Cassidy into this I'm turning this board around and going straight home!)

[StevieAteMyCat]

Originally Posted by UndoingTheLaces

OMG, you are MY kind of nutjob. I... I... think I love you. (and if you bring David Cassidy into this I'm turning this board around and going straight home!)

Woohoo, a profession of love in just five days! If this rate holds steady and six people a month tell me they love me, I'm really going to looooove this board.

Since I haven't yet mentioned it, you and I share a gender, though I prefer the opposite. I always wonder what people first assume about me. I like to think my rugged manliness shines through, although I also like to believe that I'm even prettier than Stevie in her prime. Some say I'm delusional, but people said the same about Galileo, and look at him now!

[Sahara]

Originally Posted by StevieAteMyCat

Some say I'm delusional, but people said the same about Galileo, and look at him now!

Yep. Dead!

[UndoingTheLaces]

Originally Posted by StevieAteMyCat

Woohoo, a profession of love in just five days! If this rate holds steady and six people a month tell me they love me, I'm really going to looooove this board.

Since I haven't yet mentioned it, you and I share a gender, though I prefer the opposite. I always wonder what people first assume about me. I like to think my rugged manliness shines through, although I also like to believe that I'm even prettier than Stevie in her prime. Some say I'm delusional, but people said the same about Galileo, and look at him now!

Hmm, you prefer the opposite gender yet you refer to yourself as pretty. I make no judgements. Alas, my love will be unrequited. While you prefer the company of women, I prefer the company of gay men. But, as Stevie and Kenny Logins put it... "whenever I call you friend"